Posted on 09/27/2007 11:58:52 AM PDT by NYer
Ping to #39.
"Rejoice, Uplifting of men.
Rejoice, Downfall of demons.
Rejoice, you who trampled upon the delusion of error.
Rejoice, you who censured the deceit of the idols.
Rejoice, Sea which drowned the symbolic Pharaoh.
Rejoice, Rock which refreshed those thirsting for life.
Rejoice, Pillar of fire, guiding those in darkness.
Rejoice, Protection of the world, more spacious than a cloud.
Rejoice, Nourishment, successor to manna.
Rejoice, Minister of holy joy.
Rejoice, Land of promise.
Rejoice, you from whom flows milk and honey."
I will think differently of the name "Olivia" from now on.
I would add that when Jesus addresses Mary as “Women” at Cana .
Jesus is telling her that she is Universal Mother of everyone who Jesus redeemed.
When Mary asked Jesus to perform His first miracle,thus declaring Himself as the Son of God,Mary is the co-redeemer and UNIVERSAL MOTHER to all that Jesus redeems.
It goes as follows....
Jesus comes to Saint Peter and says..”Peter who let these people into Heaven?I gave you the keys Peter,but you are to use great discernment.
Peter replies .... “It’s not my fault Lord! Every-time I shut the door to Heaven on someone your Mother opens a window to let them in”
There are several instances in Scripture where it reads as if God did change His mind. The one I can think of off-hand is Jonah and Ninevah: “And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.” Jonah 3:10
The evidence of Mary’s faith and the effectiveness of that faith is definitely there in the wedding at Cana, and by analogy the effectiveness of our faith. It must also be true though, that Christ’s hour truly had not yet come since that is what Christ said. God would not lie to make a demonstration.
The study that NYer posted sort of skirts the issue by saying “In order to call attention to that all-important element which made Him advance, as it were, the hour of His miracles - namely, Mary’s abiding faith in His Divine Omnipotence.” The “as it were” there is precious since it skirts any explanation for the mystery of God’s interaction with prayer and human free will . . .
I’m sort of drawn to the vision of Leibniz of the best of all possible worlds with God solving the “problem” of existence and salvation in the best possible way . . . with events such as Mary asking him to perform a miracle before “his time” factored in . . . so that there was a “better” outcome if he could have waited, but that outcome could not be within his plan, which was the best plan possible incorporating all actual exercises of free will, including Mary’s action. Of course I’m out on a limb, and sinking fast, with the shore barely in sight, and the fog is getting thick . . . which is why it might be best to just say something like “as it were” . . . instead.
Thank you for your time. Do not take my views with anything less than multiple grains of salt.
God was going to destroy the people and Moses asked him to change his mind. And he did.
Likewise, God was going to destroy the entire scene, but Moses questioned him about the righteous people there and wherer he would save it for five people? Since only four righeious people were found, Lot and his wife and their two children, God did destroy it.
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Seventeenth Sunday in Ordinary Time
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Reading 1
Gn 18:20-32
In those days, the LORD said: “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great,
and their sin so grave,
that I must go down and see whether or not their actions
fully correspond to the cry against them that comes to me.
I mean to find out.”
While Abraham’s visitors walked on farther toward Sodom,
the LORD remained standing before Abraham.
Then Abraham drew nearer and said:
“Will you sweep away the innocent with the guilty?
Suppose there were fifty innocent people in the city;
would you wipe out the place, rather than spare it
for the sake of the fifty innocent people within it?
Far be it from you to do such a thing,
to make the innocent die with the guilty
so that the innocent and the guilty would be treated alike!
Should not the judge of all the world act with justice?”
The LORD replied,
“If I find fifty innocent people in the city of Sodom,
I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
Abraham spoke up again:
“See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord,
though I am but dust and ashes!
What if there are five less than fifty innocent people?
Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?”
He answered, “I will not destroy it, if I find forty-five there.”
But Abraham persisted, saying “What if only forty are found there?”
He replied, “I will forbear doing it for the sake of the forty.”
Then Abraham said, “Let not my Lord grow impatient if I go on.
What if only thirty are found there?”
He replied, “I will forbear doing it if I can find but thirty there.”
Still Abraham went on,
“Since I have thus dared to speak to my Lord,
what if there are no more than twenty?”
The LORD answered, “I will not destroy it, for the sake of the twenty.”
But he still persisted:
“Please, let not my Lord grow angry if I speak up this last time.
What if there are at least ten there?”
He replied, “For the sake of those ten, I will not destroy it.”
Thanks for posting Luke. Always love to get thr REAL story of the Annunciation out there!
I just don't see the problem -- certainly there's no need to make it into "a lie". (I do, however, very much appreciate the opportunity to dig into the passage with you!)
It's probably too easy to make this into an argument between Jesus and Mary, and thus to conclude that Jesus changed His mind or some such. That seems wrong.
John doesn't bother to tell us whether Jesus was upset, or if He said it with a knowing smile. But we can't neglect family dynamics, and the way we talk to our own family members. It reads to me like the "fake stern" tone we all use from time to time. You can easily imagine them communicating their real messages with a glance and a smile.
In that scenario, Mary's simple and direct response ("do what He tells you") would reflect the unspoken part of the conversation -- and the story does read as if Jesus was really saying, "Of course I'll do it, but let's keep it quiet, OK?"
It can't be the case that Jesus was pushed into public prematurely and against His will. By this point, He's already been baptized, the Holy Spirit has come upon Him like a dove, He's been identified as the Messiah, and started gathering Disciples. His public ministry has already started!
So we need to look at it differently, recognizing that John is big on symbolism and foreshadowing. Look at the exchange:
When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come."
His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
In a symbolic sense, this exchange pretty much encapsulates why Jesus came in the first place. It's just not the time or place for it to actually take place as intended -- but it doesn't mean that He has no intention of dealing with the present, more worldly problem of the wine at the wedding.
Looked at another way, the wine at the wedding seems to foreshadow the wine at the Last Supper. Offering wine at this feast, could stand for the wine of the Eucharistic Feast. "His hour" could be the time when He said, "this is My blood".
Jesus doesn't offer His own blood this time -- He can't, because it has to be followed by His death and resurrection. But the scene foreshadows the end, right at the beginning (John is careful to say this was His first sign).
It we see it simply as foreshadowing, it becomes a whole lot less problematic.
Well played...but I’ll see your “Athakist to the Most Holy Theotokos”, and raise you “the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary”! ;)
Holy Mary, pray for us.
Holy Mother of God, pray for us.
Holy Virgin of virgins, pray for us.
Mother of Christ, pray for us.
Mother of divine grace, pray for us.
Mother most pure, pray for us.
Mother most chaste, pray for us.
Mother inviolate, pray for us.
Mother undefiled, pray for us.
Mother most amiable, pray for us.
Mother most admirable, pray for us.
Mother of good counsel, pray for us.
Mother of our Creator, pray for us.
Mother of our Savior, pray for us.
Virgin most prudent, pray for us.
Virgin most venerable, pray for us.
Virgin most renowned, pray for us.
Virgin most powerful, pray for us.
Virgin most merciful, pray for us.
Virgin most faithful, pray for us.
Mirror of justice, pray for us.
Seat of wisdom, pray for us.
Cause of our joy, pray for us.
Spiritual vessel, pray for us.
Vessel of honor, pray for us.
Singular vessel of devotion, pray for us.
Mystical rose, pray for us.
Tower of David, pray for us.
Tower of ivory, pray for us.
House of gold, pray for us.
Ark of the covenant, pray for us.
Gate of heaven, pray for us.
Morning star, pray for us.
Health of the sick, pray for us.
Refuge of sinners, pray for us.
Comforter of the afflicted, pray for us.
Help of Christians, pray for us.
Queen of Angels, pray for us.
Queen of Patriarchs, pray for us.
Queen of Prophets, pray for us.
Queen of Apostles, pray for us.
Queen of Martyrs, pray for us.
Queen of Confessors, pray for us.
Queen of Virgins, pray for us.
Queen of all Saints, pray for us.
Queen conceived without original sin, pray for us.
Queen assumed into heaven, pray for us.
Queen of the most holy Rosary, pray for us.
Queen of Peace, pray for us.
"ODE ONE
Heirmos
The charioteer of Pharaoh was sunk in olden times by Moses' rod, which worked a mighty wonder when, in the Cross's form, it struck the sea, dividing it in two; and it led into safety sojourning Israel that fled by foot, chanting to the Lord God a song of praise.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
My humble soul is troubled by the rising storms of afflictions and woes; and clouds of misfortunes overcome me, bringing darkness to my heart, O Bride of God. But since you are the Mother of the Divine and Eternal Light, shine your gladsome light and illumine me.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
From countless trials and afflictions, grievous woes, and from misfortunes of life have I been delivered by your mighty strength, O spotless and pure Maid. I extol and I magnify your immeasurable sympathy, and the loving care that you have for me.
Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Having my hope now in your mighty help, O Maid, I flee for refuge to you. Unto your shelter have I run wholeheartedly, O Lady, and I bow my knee; and I mourn and cry weeping: Do not disdain me, the wretched one, for you are the refuge of Christian folk.
Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
I shall not cease from making known most manifestly your great deeds, Maid of God; for if you were not present to intercede in my behalf and importune your Son and God, who would free and deliver me from such storms and turbulence, and surmount the perils that trouble me?
Preserve and save, O Theotokos, your servants from every danger; after God do all of us for refuge flee unto you; a firm rampart you are and you are our protection.
With good will, look on me, O all-hymned Theotokos; behold my body's grievous infirmity, and heal the cause of my soul's sorrow.
ODE THREE
Heirmos
The vault of the heavens is You, O Lord, Fashioner; and the Holy Church's great founder; likewise establish me in unfeigned love for You, for You are the height of things sought for, the staff of the faithful and the only Friend of all.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
At a loss and despairing, I cry with pain to you: Hasten, O fervent protection; grant your help to me, your lowly slave and wretched servant, O Maiden; for with heartfelt fervour I come seeking for your aid.
Most Holy Theotokos save us.
You, O Lady, have truly been shown to be wondrous now in your benefactions and mercies granted to me, O Maid; hence do I glorify and acclaim you, whilst praising your great loving care and your boundless solicitude.
Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Mighty storms of misfortunes, O Lady, pass over me; and the swelling waves of afflictions plunge me into the depths. But be quick to come; lend me your helping hand, Maiden, for you are my fervent protectress and sure support.
Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
I profess you, O Lady, as the true Mother of God: you, who has both banished and triumphed over the might of death; for as the source of Life, you have freed me from Hades' bonds, raising me to life, though to earth was I fallen down.
Preserve and save, O Theotokos, your servants from every danger; after God do all of us for refuge flee unto you; you are a firm rampart and our protection.
With good will, look on me, O all-hymned Theotokos; behold my body's grievous infirmity, and heal the cause of my soul's sorrow."
Ah, if think what he have here is what some saints call a “holy rivalry” over Our Lady. ;-)
You come up with the most worthy and beautiful articles to consider. Thank you again.
LOL
Knew you would appreciate this particular article for its clear explanation of Mary as the new Eve. Glad you enjoyed it.
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