Mormon ousted as an apostate

“The kingdom I’m fit for”? Where is the scripture? I’m already in the kingdom of God.

See "Eternal Life".

Mormon versus Christian definitions

Word...	Mormon	Christian
Atonement	(1) Used almost exclusively as a reference to Jesus' conquering physical death for all people. By conquering physical death, Jesus made it possible for all people to enter again into the presence of Heavenly Father - if for no other reason than to be judged by him. In other words, they are again 'at-one' with him (atoned). This will happen at Judgment Day. Those who have earned it will live in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father. Everyone else will live outside of the presence of Heavenly Father. (2) At times atonement includes the thought of Jesus' paying for people's sins. But underlying all such references is the thought that they have to pay him back. For a good example of the LDS view of Jesus' atoning work, see Gospel Principles chapter 12.	Jesus' complete payment, made once, for all the sins of all the people of the entire world. Hebrews 7:27: Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 1 Peter 3:18: For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. Through faith in Jesus' payment, we are given eternal life in heaven.
Bible	One of four books Mormons consider scripture. They believe it to be the Word of God "as far as it is translated correctly" (Eighth Article of Faith). They believe many precious parts have been lost from it (1 Nephi 13:28). Consequently they consider it the least reliable of the scriptures. Many Mormons are not familiar with it.	The inspired, complete and inerrant Word of God.
Damnation	Mormon's Plan of Salvation outlines an intricate process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Anything that stops a person in their progression, such as dying without having a celestial marriage, is considered damnation as it blocks or dams their progression.	The consequence of unbelief. Unbelief results in damnation, that is, suffering eternal punishment in hell.
Eternal Life (Exaltation)	Living eternally as a god, synonymous with godhood and exaltation. "Exaltation means the same thing as eternal life" (Learn of Me, p. 72). Eternal life is reserved for those who attain the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Mormons must become perfect, have received their endowment, and been married in the temple (Celestial Marriage) before they can earn eternal life. This eternal life will be lived both with Heavenly Father in the celestial kingdom and as god over their own world which they will populate with their own children.	By faith in Jesus' payment for our sins, we are given the gift of eternal life living with God in heaven as his children.
Faith	(1) The belief that God exists and has given a good plan of salvation (Mormonism). (2) The power God gives Mormons whereby they can resist sin and become perfect. "But he must believe the truth, obey the truth, and practice the truth, to obtain the power of God called faith" (Past Living Prophet and President Brigham Young quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church Brigham Young p. 56). The more righteous a person is, the more power (faith) God will give him. "To those who have not begun the quest of comprehension, the word faith appears to be only a synonym for a kind of belief or conviction....It is a principle of power" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 82).	The sure hope of our deliverance from death to eternal life in heaven. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Forgiveness	Must be earned through what may be "weeks, years, or centuries" of effort. To be forgiven of a sin, one must meet the demands of the LDS definition of repentance for that sin. God 'remembers' the original sin and you lose your forgiveness if you recommit the sin.	The undeserved gift of having your sins separated from you "as far as the east is from the west". Because Jesus paid our penalty as our substitute, we are considered guiltless by God. God does not remember our sins.
Gift	Mormonism has expanded the definition of the term 'gift'. The expanded definition includes as 'gifts' things which are rewarded to an individual only after first completing certain requirements or first demonstrating sufficient worthiness. The expanded definition also includes as 'gifts' things which once received, obligate the receiver to a set of conditions; which, if broken revoke the 'gift'. Most 'gifts' in Mormonism actually fall under the expanded part of the Mormon definition (eternal life, grace, forgiveness, the help of the Holy Ghost, most of God's many blessings). Mormon doctrine goes so far as to say that God is 'obligated' to give a particular 'gift' once the prescribed prerequisites have been achieved by the receiver of the gift. Most of the 'gifts' of Mormonism are not gifts but rewards, compensation, obligatory payments, and contracts.	A gift is something we receive which is undeserved, unearned, offered freely by the bestower.
Gospel	A term that refers to Mormonism in general. Or in particular, Mormonism's intricate plan of salvation. "Mormonism so-called - which actually is the gospel of Christ, restored anew this day" (Sharing the Gospel Manual, p. 176).	The "Good News" of free and full salvation (eternal life with God in heaven) won for mankind by Jesus Christ.
Grace	The power God gives people to save themselves, conditional on their earning it by doing all they can do on their own. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697). "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23). This grace does not directly provide them with eternal life, but rather with the power to make up the difference between "all they can do&qu ot; and perfection.	The unconditional, free gift of eternal life given us through faith in Jesus' saving work. Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— ⁹not by works, so that no one can boast.
Heaven	Any of the three kingdoms Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Life even on the lowest kingdom will be much better than earth, and even the vilest of unbelievers will receive a life in heaven. "The book (Doctrine and Covenants) explains clearly that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man. It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive a glory which is beyond human understanding, which is go great that we are unable to describe it adequately." (John A. Widtsoe, quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 166). Yet, even in the highest kingdom all but those who have earned exaltation will have less than complete happiness. "How lonely and barren will be the so-called single blessedness throughout eternity!" (Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 19).	God's glorious home, where all who believed in Jesus' saving work will live forever happy with him. Revelations 21:3-4: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ⁴He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.".
Hell	(1) Not a place of eternal punishment but the temporary state of suffering wicked spirits experience in spirit prison before Judgment Day. "That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of resurrection is called hell....Hell will have an end" (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 165). (2) The regret the inhabitants of the lower kingdoms will experience as they see the glories of the celestial kingdom is described in Mormon literature as a kind of hell. (3) Mormons call Satan's domain Outer Darkness. Only those who leave the LDS church are sent to Outer Darkness.	Satan's domain of unending torment. Mark 9:47-48: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, ⁴⁸where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ All unbelievers will be cast into hell. Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Justification	Unfamiliar term to most Mormons. Mormonism describes it as God's strict confirmation of the merits or demerits of man's own actions. In other words, LDS justification is God's act of rewarding people on their own actions, rewarding right and punishing wrong.	God declares us (believers) not guilty on the basis of Christ's atoning work.
Paid - As in "Jesus paid for my sins".	Mormonism uses the word 'paid' as a synonym for 'refinanced'. When a Mormon says "Jesus paid for my sins", he does not mean that he no longer owes the debt of sin, merely that the creditor and the terms have changed. The entire debt still remains to be paid!	When a Christian says "Jesus paid for my sins", he means that his entire payment for all his sins has been made, no more debt remains, no further payment is due or could even be made.
Repentance	"It is a long road spiked with thorns and briars and pitfalls and problems" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness quoted in Gospel Principles, page 123. The Mormon definition includes: 1) sorrow for your sins. 2) abandoning [never again committing] each and every sin. 3) confessing each sin. 4) restitution, as far as it is possible, for every sin ever committed. 5) freely forgive anyone who ever sinned against you. 6) obedience to all of God's other commands [in essence - perfection]. 7) perform works to make up for the sin. 8) there can be no repentance without punishment. 9) you will not even desire to commit the sin again! Points 1-7 referenced in Gospel Principles, pages 124-125. Point 8 referenced in Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, page 224. Point 9 referenced in Missionary Discussions, page 2-14 / Study Guide 2, page 3.& lt;p align="left">From *Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Joseph F. Smith:* True repentance is not only sorrow for sins, and humble penitence and contrition before God, but it involves the necessity of turning away from them, a discontinuance of all evil practices and deeds, a thorough reformation of life, a vital change from evil to good, from vice to virtue, from darkness to light. Not only so, but to make restitution, so far as it is possible, for all the wrongs we have done, to pay our debts, and restore to God and man their rights - that which is due to them from us.	Literally, a change of mind. A turning of one's heart from trust in yourself and your works to trust in Jesus and his work for you. Such a change of heart will result in sorrow for one's sins and a humble attitude of following God's will.
Redemption	Synonymous with atonement.	Christ bought all mankind back (redeemed) from the wages of our sin. See atonement.
Salvation	(1) For most Mormons this is equivalent to physical resurrection, the reuniting of body and soul on Judgment Day. This is the only free gift in Mormonism. This is why many can say they believe they are saved by Jesus alone. They mean that they believe they don't have to do anything to be resurrected. However, this salvation does not grant eternal life (exaltation). That is based on their successful completion of their plan of salvation. Mormonism states that if one makes no effort and is an unbeliever he / she will still be resurrected and assigned a place in the lowest kingdom. Therefore, a Mormon can say that a person is granted heaven solely on Jesus' atoning work. And that person need not even believe in Jesus to attain it. (2) Sometimes 'salvation' is used as a synonym for exaltation, as in "Plan of Salvation" (actually the plan of exaltation).	The free gift of eternal life in heaven with God given us through faith in Jesus' saving work.
Sanctification	A term not commonly used in Mormonism. They use it to refer to a state of saintliness which is obtained as people purify themselves by overcoming sin.	(1) Believers in Jesus' saving work are considered saints by God (sanctified). This refers to our status as citizens of heaven, while living on earth. (2) While on earth, the continuing work of the Holy Spirit resulting in the strengthening of our faith and becoming increasingly Christ-like (holy). (3) The final change that occurs on Judgment Day where believers are forever separated from their sinful nature and are thereby made holy.
Sin	A word not commonly used by Mormons since Mormonism has a weak view of sin. "But all of us are guilty of sin to some degree" (Gospel Principles, p. 117). Instead of talking about sin, they use words such as bad habits, infractions, mistakes, and poor judgments.	Any violation of God's commands, whether in thought, word, or deed. Includes any and all trespass, transgression, iniquity, wickedness, etc. Includes sins of omission (not doing what we are commanded) as well as commission (doing what we are commanded not to do).
Plan of Salvation	In general, Mormonism. Specifically, an intricate plan outlining a process of progression toward eternal life (exaltation). Steps in this process include becoming perfect, temple endowment, and celestial marriage. All the laws and ordinances of Mormonism embody the plan.	God's plan of sacrificing his perfect son so that all who believe in him are saved (given eternal life). John 3:14-17: Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, ¹⁵that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. ¹⁶"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

Thanks, I’ll study this. However, Joeseph Smith has about as much chance as Mary in determining which “kingdom” I will “wind up in” and besides, there is only one, with ONE KING.

I can’t find a source online. I did hear it many years ago. I shouldn’t have said anything if I can’t back it up with a source. I actually read it in an article, but it has been 26 years ago...

You’re so charming when you take things out of context, GF!

I’m not going to sit here and fight with you over what you consider to be marriage. I believe it is a God given institution and if one enters into it, they should keep the vows and covenants they made to one another. In other words, keep your word, keep your promise.

You’re so charming when you take things out of context, GF!

That is SO rich, coming from you...LOL....Pot meet kettle.

There are several possible interpretations of Heb 6:

1- The warning is to Jewish people who had stopped short of trusting in Jesus for salvation after they had professed to believe in Him;

2- The admontion is hypothetical, that if it were possible to fall away after receiving all these things then to renew to salvation would require crucifying Jesus again;

3- The admontion is directed toward believers who have fallen so deeply into sin that they have crucified Jesus afresh and in danger of losing their rewards, not their salvation;

4- The admonition is to those so deeply into sin that they are in danger of losing their salvation

Since scripture repeatedly affirms the security of the believer, you can find direction as to which of the above four possibilities you favor. [Based on the following scripture teachings, one ought not interpret the admonition to read a saved person could lose their salvation ... 'made partakers of the Holy Spirit might be better rendered 'and were willingly being led by the Holy Spirit': John 3:15-16; John 10:27-30; Romans 8:35 & 8:37-39; Ephesians 1:12-14; Philippians 1:6; Hebrews 10:12-14; 1 Peter 1:3-5]

Reading especially Heb 10:14, we may know the salvation of the faither is secure when the Holy Spirit comes into the human spirit, not merely leads the seeker through the behavior mechanism but is on the Mercy Seat and dwelling in the human spirit, thus the faither is sanctified, as the Temple was sanctified when God was seated in the Holy of Holies.

One more paragraph of yours and then I leave you to try more of your doubt sowing without me playing ping pong over your offerings:

"Any person, at any time, has the ability to turn their back on God and conduct themselves in such a way as to exclude themselves from entry to heaven." Those not born again as Jesus taught to Nicodemus can reject salvation and remain unregenerate. But once you are born again, you are in God's family and His seed remains within you unto the end and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against that Seed, that 'earnest of your inheritance', such is the mystery of the magnificence of His Grace toward us!

<font color=black> "Every person should have the humility to recognize the weakness in them and strive to resist temptation lest they wind up going to hell, when people sin they force away the Spirit of God from them and all people need to repent when they sin to get that Holy Spirit back." Do you not realize that you have just affirmed Pauls teachng (#2 above) that it is impossible to re-crucify Jesus? If you could force the Holy Spirit 'seed' out of your human spirit, how many do you think are so skillful that they could of their own intellect defeat Satan and obtain salvation? Answer=zero, zip, nada, bupkiss ... that is why His Grace is so astonishing to behold, because while we were yet sinner Christ died for us, and should you be able to fail in carrying the Grace basket is not an option God offers because even sinless Adam could not resist the wiles of Satan, so I know self-righteous Mormons cannot. And for those, if they could fail to carry the Grace basket, Paul teaches clearly you cannot crucify afresh the Son of God for your readmission into His family. Your salvation is secure because it doesn't depend upon 'all you can do', it is God's work in you by the presence of His Holy Spirit!

<font color=black> "If you truly do have the Spirit of God with you and then sin, it’s absence will be noticeable to you." A quick study of the arrangement of the Tent Tabernacle might help you to realize why this sentence is in error. Even a gentile could come into the outer court and the temple not be defiled, and even if someone not a Jew came into the Holy Place, the Holy Place could be rededicated and cleansed, but if a Gentile defiled the Holy of Holies, it was the end of the life of the one entering in thusly, for God will not be approached by sinful flesh. The Holy Spirit indwells the spirit of the faither, Holy of Holies of the faither, and from thence administers change to the soul (behavior mechanism or Holy Place) and the body (the outer court of the Temple of the Living God ... for you are now in Christ Jesus the Temple of the Living God.<font color=black>

Have a pleasant evening, Grig. May God's spirit lead you until you receive the earnest of an inheritance in Christ and the Holy Spirit comes into your human spirit for ever and ever. Faithe in Christ and His Righteousness will be counted unto you. Faithe in 'all that you can do' and you will be lost. BTW, you are not the decider of your future exaltation of lack thereof, God is the author and finisher, Grig.

Paul briefly mentions three kingdoms of glory in 1Cor15:40-43. Modern revelation gives more detail on it.

I don’t have time for a big debate, we can just skip to the end of it and realize that you and I have a different understanding of what is intended by the biblical text, and subscribe to different methods in coming to that understanding.

Sigh.

I’m really disappointed by your attitude towards my asking you a question.

If Freerepublic isn’t for dialogue, why are you here?

~”So, how does the church explain the conflict of its doctrine compared to the fact that Smith was only legally married to one woman, and yet claimed to be married to others with whom he committed adultery?”~

There is no conflict. In that day, there was no law in the United States against polygamy. Therefore, Smith was legally married to more than one woman. In the eyes of the law, and, we believe, in the eyes of God, this was not adultery.

The nation made polygamy illegal after Smith’s time. After exhausting appeals to the highest court in the land, the Church fell in line with the law, and the engagement of new plural marriages, with a few aberrant exceptions, was eradicated.

Bringing us back to the original topic of the thread, engaging in polygamy today is an excommunicable offense.

You must be careful when judging the past through the prism of contemporary standards. You assume that polygamy is necessarily adultery because we consider it to be so today. That is not an historical truism.

~”That is SO rich, coming from you...LOL....Pot meet kettle.”~

My good friend, I would love to see you back that up.

I didn’t mean to have an attitude. I’m trying to understand your point of view on marriage. I stated mine, sorry if it offended you. You stated that marriage is a state institution, I stated that I believe marriage is a God given institution.

Sorry about my response. When I said keep your promise, keep your word, I was speaking in the generic you. I should have said when someone makes a promise or a covenant in marriage to someone else, they should keep that promise and keep their word. My apologies for offending you, it was not meant.

You assume that polygamy is necessarily adultery because we consider it to be so today. That is not an historical truism.

Smith had sex with wives of other men. That is adultery under any standard; not just polygamy.

Paul briefly mentions three kingdoms of glory in 1Cor15:40-43. Modern revelation gives more detail on it.

You are confusing Jewish mysticism with God's kingdom. "Modern revelation" is vain imaginations and babblings of the occult kind.

Grig It is the clear teaching of the Bible that Jesus atoned for our sins and redeemed us from the curse upon us because of our sinful nature.

MHG in your reasoning the whole world is cover automaticly! This is a covenant between God and man an is still subject to or dependent on a condition or conditions in order to receive that promise! Yes the work is done for all who qualify!

Sex with multiple women IS adultery. It doesn’t matter if it is legal or state law.

Words have meanings. Twisting them does not prove your case.

It is the clear teaching of the Bible that Jesus atoned for our sins and redeemed us from the curse upon us because of our sinful nature.

All that you posted is according to the natural man MHG!

This is a distortion of the Word of God!

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In Acts 2 He tells how to gain salvation and speaks of the gift of the Holy Ghost—Many believe and are baptized.

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

So many here think all you have to do as just believe you do not have to keep the Commandments because so many of you think it is impossible so why try!

Yet as one search the scriptures one see many things differently as some pick choose what ever seems to valid ones life style to get aways with it!

Why do so many go to different MC becaues has a more stict or relax code of ethics.

What ever floats you boat MC!

But when one is in the Lord Church you must strive Keep His Covenants to the best of your abilites in order to receive the promise and to be counted righteous in the Lord’s eyes!