Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[colorcountry]

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................

[Elsie]

You believe his lie because it fits your already warped views and in doing so you harm your own credibility.

What 'lie'?

[Elsie]

You believe his lie because it fits your already warped views and in doing so you harm your own credibility.

Warped Veiw ALERT!

[Elsie]

It appears that this guy learned some things about Mormonism that might cause other thinking individuals to question the truth claims of Mormonism.

[colorcountry]

The truth according to 99% of the American Public. Only a very small portion adhere to the revising of history that is found in Mormonism.

Move-on and Michael Moore hold about the same percentage of “believers” in their truth.

I really don’t mind if the LDS Church kicks out dissident members. I think a closed club should have the right to remove any member (who won’t toe the mark) it sees fit. But the violence in it is appalling to the families, especially when it is over something as provable as history.

[Utah Girl]

How very neatly you avoid my comments about other religions excommunicating members and where the New Testament talks about casting those out.

[Elsie]

Fundamentalist Mormon

Ha!

'Fundamentalist' Mormon's are not even CALLED Mormons by the headquarters in SLC!

The one's in Warren Jeff's bunch are known as #^%%%$#@&%$&*#@.

I find it really hypocritical of a group that gets THEIR nose out of joint when Mainline Christians say that THEY'RE not Christian; then turn right around and the the one's in Colorado City are not Mormon!

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Matthew 18:23-35
 23.  "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
 24.  As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents  was brought to him.
 25.  Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
 26.  "The servant fell on his knees before him. `Be patient with me,' he begged, `and I will pay back everything.'
 27.  The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
 28.  "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.  He grabbed him and began to choke him. `Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. 
 29.  "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, `Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
 30.  "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
 31.  When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
 32.  "Then the master called the servant in. `You wicked servant,' he said, `I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
 33.  Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
 34.  In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
 35.  "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

 

 

[maggief]

So there are actually Mormons who don’t know Joseph Smith was into (in all ways) other men’s wives?

How is that possible? Don’t they have bios of him? With a computer that stuff is so easy to look up.

BTT

[Elsie]

 If you ask any life long member of the church if polygamy is doctrinal, the answer would be “Yes, but God disallows the practice at this time” or something very similar.

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    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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Warren Jeffs: willing to be cast into prison...

[Elsie]

And I will add that many, many have prayed, and received answers from the Holy Spirit....who told them the truth..

And here is how to do it:

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1 John 4
1. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3. but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

[Elsie]

Almost all of the people who have gone public about their excommunications have not been quite truthful about the reasons for their excommunication.

How do you know?

[Elsie]

I Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Dang you!!!

You KNOW it ain't fornification if'n you get's a REVELATION from GOD!!!

--MormonDude(Looking fer love in all the wrong places)

[Elsie]

The problem he has is he chose not to go away quietly, but to openly drag others with him.

Who is he dragging??

[colorcountry]

I addressed that in post #138. My sentiments there would apply to your post about other religious organizations.

I think where you might be misunderstanding my point about my Church can’t excommunicate anyone - I meant it salvationally. No religious body can know the relationship between a person and his/her Savior.

Your Chruch ruling body seems to think it CAN remove blessings between its attendees and Jesus Christ. YOUR organization believes it has that power. The body that I attend does NOT believe it has that power, but does feel it is biblical to correct someone when necessary.

[Elsie]

As it has not been my experience...

Yet!

Don't you realize how MANY folks are praying that the Holy Spirit has not given up on you yet??

[Elsie]

Those who say that they were excommunicated for a difference of opinion are not telling the whole truth.

And you KNOW this little tidbit, how?

[Grig]

You can’t lose what you don’t yet have. Eternal exaltation comes AFTER enduring to the end in righteousness, so being a faithful member only means you are the straight and narrow path towards exaltation. Excommunication just moves you back to the start of the path and those members are free to repent, be baptized again and continue on that path once again.

And again, if you read 1Cor, you will see Paul is very, very clear that fornicators like the member he ordered excommunicated are to be cast out of the church and will not be in heaven unless they repent. Once again, are you going to call the early Church cultic for doing the same thing we do?

[JRochelle]

“Those who commit adultery while they are married. You know, the covenant, promise, and vow they make during the marriage ceremony to cleave to one another and no other. Or don’t you believe that?”

So do you believe that Joseph Smith committed adultery when he had sex with other mens’ wives?

Or does adultery mean different things at different times?

[Elsie]

Bye bye. No hard feelings. Maybe he can find a church more to his liking.

Yup; LEAVE!

We don't want to DEFEND the evidence - just GO!

--MormonDude(frustrated by facts)

[Elsie]

That was a few years ago, both have been rebaptized and they are going to get to the temple as soon as they can to be sealed to each other and their little boy.

Why?

What part of your church doctrine requires this?

[Elsie]

This is a non issue.

Ok then - quit posting about it.