Well, then you are no worse off than a Muslim.
. 
Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
You are correct : ) That wasn't so hard was it?
You do know that I am an atheist don't you?
I am sorry. I didn't mean for it to come across as a personal attack. I will do better in the future ^_^
Yes
Well, then you are no worse off than a Muslim.
.
As the father of an evangelical missionary who has served in some of the hard places of this earth, I can testify to the truthfulness of your claim for Catholic charity to many of the poor and needy people of the world. Although my daughter's doctrinal beliefs differ significantly with Catholic doctrine, as do mine as well, she speaks well of the Catholic priests and nuns who faithfully serve their desperarely needy parishioners in the worst of the worst areas on the planet. If the mission programs of all denominations put as much emphasis on the physical needs of the people in those hard places as those Catholic and many evangelical Christian missions do, I believe the gospel of Christ would be accepted more readily than it is when those needs are not addressed with much love and mercy. I won't name names, but it seems to me that some of the liberal mainline Protestant denominations are much more interested in influencing the political climate of the 3rd world states in their mission fields than they are in meeting either the spiritual and/or temporal needs of those nations' needy people.
I'm certainly not saying that RCC missionaries have a corner on mercy and a loving Christian spirit, far from it. I personally know and love far too many evangelical Christian missionaries who have devoted the best years of their lives and health to faithfully and joyfully serving Jesus Christ by showing mercy and love in His name in a tangible way to the destitute people of such places as the desperately poor southern Sahara, the hostile jungles of Central America, and the former satellite nations of the USSR for me to ever say that. I'm just saying that no one should pass judgment on another man's work for the Lord without first examining the quality of his own work.
Thanks for your kind encouragement.
oh please, stop this nonsensical nit picking
this tit for tat game of yours is churlish
On these issues, there's no such thing. There's what the early church believed and taught. And there's the more modern sources you and others believe.
Now, I think you're almost ready for "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." It's very "independent" as well.
“You are certainly entitled to not recognize my Christianity. I hope you can understand that I will never accept your view.”
This is always such a twist. Your so called prophet claims all other Christians are an abomination and doesn’t recognize them. You as a Mormon must agree (else Joseph Smith would be fallible along with all his teachings). You say you will never accept my view. Yet somehow I am supposed to feel guilty for stating the fact that you reject other Christians as true Christians. It is always such a whirlpool debating Mormons.
“Doing so would be to deny the witness I have received from the Holy Ghost.”
Which is strange, because the Holy Ghost asked me to bear witness against the false prophecy of Joseph Smith. So one of us is 100% wrong.
“I feel as I’m writing this that you will want to attack my position and that is certainly your right.”
You must be psychic. Of course, I knew you’d say this too.
“I know that when you do it is through your sincere efforts to expose what you feel is a threat to real Christianity.”
That is correct.
“Please be mindful that those who are reading this may be on the fence over their faith.”
I have only attacked the charlatanry of Joseph Smith, I haven’t said anything negative about Biblical Christian beliefs.
“I’m asking you to please be kind to those you question. That seems to me to be what Christ would have us do.”
If I am GENTLE with those I question and they are NOT confronted with the truth (giving up their lives and souls to the adulterous tinpot general Joseph Smith), that would certainly not be an example of Christian kindness.
“If the Mormon religion is true then none of the other religions are true. Would you consider that an accurate summation of what you were trying to say in such an obtuse fashion?”
That is only part of what I am saying.
If Mormonism is the True religion, then it must predate (traditional) Christianity. Therefore, Mormons should be claiming to be Mormons and the rest of us failed Mormons. Instead they claim to be part of the Christian brotherhood (in order to be accepted). In other words, it is a lie to claim to be part of an abomination (Christianity) while simultaneously claiming to precede and supersede this abomination.
But on this type of subterfuge does the Mormon Church rely.
The Apostle Paul puts it this way in Romans 10:
1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes... Romans 11: 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
Not just myself, but all who have a Muslim brought into their life need to explain to them the difference between the God of the bible and their god. One can go about it in many different ways. God knows their heart and He will guide you on how and when to talk with them. Here is just one of several thousand articles out there that show why the God of Islam is NOT the God of the bible: The god of Koran and the God of the Bible. This is what we are commanded to do - to speak Truth and to share the gospel.
If you want to do some reading on your own from the Koran that shows such a different nature of the god they serve, You can read a portion of the Koran in several different translations. That also gives a link to a commentary on why it is wrong from a Christian viewpoint. If you want, you can read the entire Koran here.
Still, the main point is that any so-called world Christian leader, supposedly versed in the Truths of God, would know that Muslims do NOT serve the true God of Abraham. And that is what should be extremely disturbing that the pope not only said what he did but also kissed the Koran, and by doing so, pronounced his personal acceptance of it, his reverence of it. Yet by doing so, he blasphemes God.
Nice link!
Are you over here causin' trouble again? ;^)
Cha Ching!
|
Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
4. and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
48. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
33. As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
8. "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
4. He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
15. Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
2. "There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
32. For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
47. "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
2. The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
31. For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
46. The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
14. May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
1. To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
9. I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
2. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
6. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
7. My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
3. Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
35. They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
26. He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
1. Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
1. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
10. You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
4. Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
29. And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
8. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 12. O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
Do you know what Muslims do to Atheists under Sharia Law?
So you are saying that Jews believe in Christ?
LOL
They strongly suggest that they pretend to be Muslims.
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