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We All Have Our Own Special Guardian Angel
http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Angelology/Angelology_019.htm ^ | Unknown | Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

Posted on 07/07/2007 5:12:05 PM PDT by stfassisi

There are few aspects of the Christian faith that are more satisfying to the human spirit than to know that each one of us has our own personal guardian angel. We may say this is part of God’s loving providence over the human race. If there is one thing that we all appreciate, in fact deeply need, it is the sense of companionship. We want to know there is someone who is near us, who cares about us, and who is ready to assist us in our needs.

Being creatures of body and soul, we know that just because someone is near to us in body does not mean that he or she is near to us in spirit. A person can be a thousand miles away in space and yet be present to us in mind and heart. Just as someone can be right next to us in body and yet not present in spirit.

I think it is worth spending a few minutes on this prelude before we go on to explain the role of the guardian angels in our lives.

We know that an angel has no body, and yet we dare not say he is nobody. Our modern world is so intoxicated with materialism that millions actually think that unless something or someone has weight and size and shape it is not real. That is not only untrue; it is a demonic lie.

Back to our guardian angel. He is very real, even though he cannot be perceived by our senses. He has a mind that is always thinking of God, and a will that is always united with God. He has been specially appointed as our companion through life. And he exercises this companionship by his constant assistance in illuminating our minds and inspiring our wills.

Teaching of the Church Over the centuries, the Church has consistently taught the faithful to look for guidance from the angelic spirits throughout life. This teaching takes on a variety of forms. We are told to invoke our guardian angels. There are numerous prayers, enriched by indulgences, urging us to pray to the angels. Devotion to the guardian angels is part of the Church’s liturgy. There are feasts in honor of the guardian angels and the saints, especially St. Thomas Aquinas, have written extensively on the existence and activity of the guardian spirits in our daily lives.

As might be expected, the foundation for this devotion to the guardian angels, is founded on divine revelation. St. Paul tells us that God has placed His angels in charge over us to keep us in all our ways. We are told that the angels will bear us up, lest we dash our foot against a stone. Those specially dear to God are privileged to be favored by angelic assistance all through their lives. The same St. Paul asks if the angels are not all ministering spirits sent to us for our sake and are those who shall inherit eternal life.

Time and again in both the Old and New Testaments, the angels are described as performing some special office for our sake. Thus the archangel Raphael cares for the temporal needs of Tobias and his family. The apostle Philip is told by “an angel of the Lord” to “Arise and go south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza” where he met the eunuch whom he baptized (Acts 8:26).

It was the belief of the universal Church that each of us has a guardian spirit to direct us in this life on our way to heaven.

We have only to remind ourselves what happened when the apostle Peter was imprisoned and chained, under guard by the enemies of Christianity. He was miraculously freed from prison by the ministration of an angel. On being freed from jail, he went to the house of Mary and knocked on the gate. The maid heard his voice and called back to the people, “It is his angel,” they told her, and in her excitement she did not open the gate to let Peter in (Acts 12:16).

In addition to these and other references to angelic assistance in the gospels, we have the celebrated statement of Christ, warning the disciples, “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father in heaven” (Matthew 18:10).

Some Basic Questions As we go through the writings of the saintly commentators on the Scriptures, we may be surprised how much they tell us about the guardian spirits. We are told much more than simply that the angels are messengers of God who come to assist us. It will be useful to ask a few questions, catechism fashion, and give a brief answer on this immense subject of angelic guardianship.

Does every Christian have a guardian angel? It is the common teaching of the Church that from the moment of baptism, all Christians are given their own personal guardian spirit. This, in fact, is one of the great benefits of the sacrament of baptism. According to St. Basil, no one can deny that an angel is present to everyone of the faithful.

Do unbelievers and sinners have guardian angels? We may say it is the common teaching of Church commentators that every human being has a guardian spirit in so far as he is human, and not precisely as a result of baptism and a state of grace. St. Jerome therefore says that this angelic custody begins at birth. “What great dignity,” he exclaims, “belongs to souls that each has an angel delegated to watch over it from the moment of its birth”(Commentary on Matthew 18:10). But this is not the end of the matter.

Does everyone have a guardian angel from conception? The guardianship by the angelic world, we may believe, goes beyond its universality to every human being from birth. St. Anselm simply declares, “Every soul is committed to an angel at the moment when it is united with a body.”

What does this mean? It means that the moment the human ovum is fertilized, God creates an immortal soul, infuses the soul into the body prepared by the parents, and the immediate result is the conception of a child. No sooner is the child conceived than it receives a guardian spirit already in the mother’s womb.

It is here that we can affirm with certitude that every direct abortion is the work of the devil. As the one from whom human death first came into existence, the devil is a murderer. What this should mean in the pro-life movement is the rise of a wide-spread devotion to the guardian angels of the unborn to protect their innocent human charges against the machinations of the evil one. I watch my vocabulary carefully. But I do not hesitate to say that those behind the global murder of millions of unborn children in the modern world are possessed by the devil.

What is the difference between the role of the guardian angels for the baptized and those who are protected by angelic powers already at conception?

For Christians, the function of the angel is primarily to lead the soul to heaven; his guardianship therefore, is directly supernatural in purpose and correspondingly positive. For human beings from birth or even conception, angels are assigned by God in order to ward off the evils which might befall the newly born or conceived human child. The role of the guardian angels for the baptized is directly related to eternal life. Whereas the angelic guardianship before or without baptism is more directly concerned with protection from evils in the natural order, and only indirectly with their heavenly destiny.

What is the first function of the guardian angels? The answer may be surprising. Although we commonly speak of the angels as our guardians, we could just as well call them our angelic guides. Their first role is to instruct us as messengers of illumination of our minds. We may therefore say they begin their mission among non-Christians entrusted to their care in order to lead these people to the true faith. For the baptized, they serve as messengers of light for the virtue of faith. They assist the believer to believe more deeply, more clearly, more certainly, more accurately, more courageously, and more zealously to share the faith with others.

That is why in the lives of the masters of spirituality, the angels serve a very distinctive function. They are communicators from God to human minds to enlighten them on the mind and will of God. So important is this that, in the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius, he tells the exercistant to always distinguish carefully between the activity of the good and the evil spirits.

We can honestly say that we are never thinking alone. Our mind is always being influenced either by the spirits of evil whom God allows to try to seduce us into sin, or by the good spirits who are divine agents in leading us to God. We call this Discernment of Spirits. It could just as well be called Discernment of the Guiding Angels of heaven from the Misguiding Angels of hell.

Our Angel of Peace There is a history of angelic ministry to the human race. The angels are called angels precisely because they are messengers sent from God to assist the children of men.

The first of these ministrations of the guardian angels is to bring us peace. In the Eastern tradition, St. Basil tells us, “We must pray to God who is well disposed towards us in order that He might give an angel of peace as a companion to protect us.”

How are the guardian angels messengers of peace? They are messengers of peace by teaching our minds the truth, the truth about God, about ourselves, and about our relationship with those whom God’s providence has placed into our lives.

The first meaning of peace is the experience of knowing the truth. How many people in our day are in deep internal conflict because their minds are not in possession of the truth . Instinctively we ask ourselves: Is there a God? Is there a purpose in life? Why are we here on earth at all? What is the meaning of suffering? What is the meaning of love? All of these and an ocean of other questions keep coming to our minds from the dawn of reason until our last conscious moments here on earth.

Only those who can answer these questions truthfully can be at peace. It is not pious rhetoric or a poetic cliché to say that peace of mind is the experience of possessing the truth. The first function of our guardian spirits, therefore, is to tell us what is the truth and thus provide what is so desperately needed in today’s confused humanity. Millions are in deep interior turmoil because they do not know the truth in their lives.

But our guardian angels are also angels of peace because they are sent by God to tell us what is the will of God in our lives. If knowing the truth gives peace of mind, responding to the will of God gives peace of heart. It is here especially that our angels are both our guides and our guardians. They guide us to know what God wants of us, and they guard us against the greatest danger in our lives, the risk of choosing our own will instead of the will of God.

Being specially enlightened by God, whose face they constantly behold, the angels know what God expects of us and they are His principal agents in communicating this divine expectation to us. There is no better prayer to the guardian angel than, “Angel of God, obtain for me the grace to know what God expects of me. If I choose to do His will I will share in the peace that you now enjoy in a blessed eternity.”

Our Angel of Penance The last title by which most people would call their guardian angel is to speak of him as the angel of penance. But so he is. We have all offended the goodness of God. We have sinned by insisting on doing what we want instead of surrendering our wills to the divine majesty.

This is where our guardian angel is our constant reminder, or shall I call him warner, that, having sinned we must do penance. There is no choice.

How does our guardian angel serve as our angel of penance? In two ways. He knows far better than we that every sin we commit deprives us of the grace of God. He knows what happened to the rebellious spirits, led by Lucifer, who refused to submit their wills to the Creator and have been suffering eternal punishment for their pride.

But our angel is also an angel of penance in reminding us, dare I say every moment of the day, that the most effective penance we can perform is to make reparation for our failures in loving God by loving Him more deeply, more generously, more patiently than we would ever have done had we not sinned. Once again I suggest a short prayer to our angel of penance, “Angel of God, you love God so deeply because you understand God’s love so completely. Ask our Lord to give me something of your great love for God, a repentant sinner, that I may join you in heavenly glory. Our Lord promised that ‘There will be joy among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.’ May I give you and your fellow angels something of this joy over my own generous repentance for my sins.”

Our Angel of Prayer There is no single angelic theme in biblical revelation that is more commonly described than the role of the angels as communicating our prayers to God. But our focus here is on the guardian angels as angels of our prayers.

How, we may ask, is our guardian angel the angel of prayer? He is first of all the angel of prayer by enlightening our minds with holy thoughts, without which we could not pray. Let me emphasize, the foundation of the spiritual life is in the mind. What we think, we desire. What we desire, we choose. What we do, makes us what we are. It all begins, I repeat, in the mind. How desperately we need the help of the angels to continually enlighten our minds with holy thoughts without which prayer would be a pious fantasy.

Our natural tendency is to be so preoccupied with the things of this world that we have to, dare I say, do violence to ourselves to place ourselves in the spirit of prayer. When Christ taught us the Our Father, He told us to say, “Our Father, who art in heaven.” This is the primary need of our souls if we are going to pray. We must lift up our minds and hearts beyond the perishable things of this world and raise them to the heavens above. Who is better equipped to raise these earthly minds of ours to the thoughts of God and the heavens where He lives? Surely it is the angels who are inhabitants of that spiritual kingdom which they merited not long after their creation by their fidelity to their Creator. What do the saints and the angels mainly do in heaven? They pray! Needless to say, they enjoy the experience ecstatically.

In so many ways, Christ tells us, reminds us, warns us to lift up our souls to the heaven in which He lives. We might say this is the deepest spiritual struggle of our lives here on earth. It is the struggle of living physically in this world of noise and tinkling cymbals, and yet constantly raise our souls to the heavens where the angels dwell. They are not only inhabitants of heaven. Heaven is familiar to them. They enjoy their heavenly surroundings. They know what it means to be in the constant vision of God and experience the beatitude, which this vision provides.

Whatever we know about the theology of prayer, we know that we need the assistance of those experienced in prayer who can teach us what it really means to pray. It means to be in the presence of God, enjoy His intimacy and experience the nearness of His presence. The angels are experienced-prayers. We should therefore expect that, in many ways, the principal assistance they can give us as our guardians and guides is to train us in the art of prayer.

In this connection, there is no more important phrase reporting Christ’s words in the gospels than when He told us that the guardian angels always see the face of the Father who is in heaven and therefore constantly behold the divinity of our Creator.

Prayer is many things, and by now a library of volumes has been written on the theology and practice of prayer. But one thing is certain, prayer here on earth is seeing the face of God by faith. We are to communicate with this God who we believe engages in conversation with us whenever we pray. That is what the angels are constantly doing in heaven, engaging in conversation with the Most High. We might say they are professionals in the practice of prayer and we are still little children who need to learn the rudiments of talking with our Heavenly Father.

There is another profound sense in which our guardian angels are the angels of prayer. Strictly speaking whenever we pray, the principal object of our prayer is God Himself. There are so many things that we need from the hands of God. So many things that only He can provide. But we need mediators between God and ourselves. We believe there is such a thing as praying directly to God. But there is too much in Scripture to remind us that we need persons who are closer to God than we are to be our intercessors with the Almighty. That is where the angels serve the function of mediating between the Almighty and ourselves. The closer a person is to God, the more holy that person is, the more pleasing to God, the more effective is that person’s intercession before the throne of the Holy Trinity. We define the Beatific Vision as the face-to-face, intuitive seeing of the Trinity. The angels not only see God, they are deeply loved by God. Their power, therefore, as pleaders for us before God is beyond human explanation. What we know by faith is that these angelic hosts are potent interceders on our behalf.

The more devoted we are to them and the more fervently we invoke their aid, the more of God’s blessings they will obtain for us who are still living in the shadows of faith.

One last prayer to our guardian angels. “My guardian angel, you always behold the Holy Trinity. You are deeply loved by the divine Majesty. You know how desperately I need the grace of God to know what He wants me to do and the strength I need to surrender my stubborn will to His divine will. How I need your powerful intercession with the Almighty. I trust you will hear my prayer and I am confident that with your help I will live my life as a sacrifice of myself to God and thus merit to join you in that celestial glory where you are waiting for me. Amen.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: angels
We know that an angel has no body, and yet we dare not say he is nobody. Our modern world is so intoxicated with materialism that millions actually think that unless something or someone has weight and size and shape it is not real. That is not only untrue; it is a demonic lie.


1 posted on 07/07/2007 5:12:07 PM PDT by stfassisi
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To: fr maximilian mary; Kolokotronis; Carolina; sandyeggo; Salvation; Pyro7480; jo kus; ...
Only those who can answer these questions truthfully can be at peace. It is not pious rhetoric or a poetic cliché to say that peace of mind is the experience of possessing the truth. The first function of our guardian spirits, therefore, is to tell us what is the truth and thus provide what is so desperately needed in today’s confused humanity. Millions are in deep interior turmoil because they do not know the truth in their lives.
2 posted on 07/07/2007 5:15:28 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi
One last prayer to our guardian angels. “My guardian angel, you always behold the Holy Trinity. You are deeply loved by the divine Majesty. You know how desperately I need the grace of God to know what He wants me to do and the strength I need to surrender my stubborn will to His divine will. How I need your powerful intercession with the Almighty. I trust you will hear my prayer and I am confident that with your help I will live my life as a sacrifice of myself to God and thus merit to join you in that celestial glory where you are waiting for me. Amen.”

Where in Scripture does it say that we can or should pray to an angel rather than to God Himself?

3 posted on 07/07/2007 5:15:33 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind
The word “angel” (in Hebrew (singular/plural), malak/malakim; in Greek, aggelos/aggelois) means “messenger” or one who is deputed.” Angels are pure spiritual and immortal beings created by God “in the beginning” (Gen. 1:1), who glorify God without ceasing (Rev. 4:8) and help carry out God’s plan of salvation of the human family (Heb. 1:14). The angels, like humans, have intelligence, will and emotion (Luke 2:10; 15:10). Angels can see God (Matt. 18:10), are called sons of God (Job 1:6; 38:7) and are ministers of God’s will (Psalm 103:20; Matt. 4:1; 13:49; 26:53). While the angels are spirits, they can assume bodily form (John 20:12; Heb. 13:2; Acts 6:15). Angels also have their own language (1 Cor. 13:1). There is a prodigious number of angels (Luke 2:13; Heb. 12:22; Rev. 5:11; Dan. 7:10; Psalm 67:18).

Through salvation history, angels have appeared to human beings, such as Zechariah (Zech. 2:3), Samson’s mother (Judges 13:3), Joseph (Matt. 1:20; 2:13-19), Zachariah (Luke 1:11,19-20), the Blessed Virgin Mary (Luke 1:26-38), the shepherds (Luke 2:9,15), Jesus during His agony in the garden (Luke 22:43), the apostles after the Resurrection (Matt 28:2) and after the Ascension (Acts 1:10). Angels have also assisted human beings with affairs on earth, such as Abraham (Gen. 18; 22:11), Hagar (Gen. 16:7; 21:17), Lot (Gen. 19), Jacob (Gen. 28:12), Elijah (1 Kings 19:5), Daniel (Dan. 6:22), Tobit (Tobit 5:6-22), Peter (Acts 10:19; 12:7-11), Cornelius (Acts 10:3; 11:13), and the eunuch (Acts 8:26-39).

As the angels are emissaries or messengers of God, they observe our behavior closely and report back to God what they observe. While God already knows how we behave, He is moved when His creatures beseech Him. Thus, the angels can report to God our good and bad behavior, and God in return will dispense both graces (Rev. 1:4; Heb. 1:14) and punishments through the angels (2 Kings 19:35; 1 Macc. 7:41; 2 Macc. 3:24-27; Acts 12:23; Rev. 1-20). In light of this, Paul tells women to put a veil on their heads for worship “because of the angels” (1 Cor. 11:10). If a woman does not wear this symbol of submission when she prays (and particularly at the Holy Mass, where the angels intimately assist), then the angels will report to God their non-submission.

The angels are not only judging our behavior on earth, but will also come with Christ to judge the world at the end of time (Matt. 16:27; 24:31; 1 Thess. 4:16; 2 Thess. 1:7). Some of the angels rebelled against God, were cast out of heaven and condemned to hell (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6). One of these fallen angels named Apollyon in Greek (Abaddon in Hebrew) is the king of the infernal abyss (Rev. 9:11).

One of the principal duties of angels is to serve as guardians for the baptized. There is little Scriptural evidence supporting the view that un-baptized people have guardian angels, but the early Fathers had differing opinions on the question and the Church has not addressed the issue. Here are some Scriptural verses that demonstrate the truth of guardian angels:

Ex.23:20-23 – “See, I am sending an angel before you, to guard you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared. Be attentive to him and heed his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not forgive your sin. My authority resides in him. If you heed his voice and carry out all I tell you, I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes. My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out.”

Judith 13:20 – “As the same Lord lives, his angel has been my keeper both going hence and abiding there, and returning from there here; and the Lord has not suffered me his handmaid to be defiled, but has brought me back to you without pollution of sin, rejoicing for his victory, for my escape, and for your deliverance.”

Psalm 34:8 – “The angel of the LORD, who encamps with them, delivers all who fear God.”

Psalm 91:11-13 – “For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways. With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You shall tread upon the asp and the viper, trample the lion and the dragon.” God reveals to David that the angels will guard and protect him. Since this Psalm was written about 1,000 years before Christ, the belief in guardian angels was well-established among the Jews.

Dan. 10:13 – “but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia…” See also Dan. 4:17; 10:10-21; and Acts 16:6 where angels serve as guardians of entire countries.

Matt.18:10 - “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father.” Jesus’ use of “their angels” (hoi angeloi auton) in reference to “one of these little ones” (enos ton micron touton) indicates that each “little one” has an angel to guard and protect the little one.

Acts 12:14-15 – “She was so overjoyed when she recognized Peter’s voice that, instead of opening the gate, she ran in and announced that Peter was standing at the gate. They told her, “You are out of your mind,” but she insisted that it was so. But they kept saying, “It is his angel.” This demonstrates that adults also have guardian angels. The phrase “they kept saying” also shows that the belief in guardian angels was common in the early Church.

Acts 16:9 – “During the night Paul had a vision. A Macedonian stood before him and implored him with these words, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” See also Acts 5:19; 8:26; 10:3,22; 11:13).

Heb. 1:14 – “Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?” This verse clearly indicates that God created the angels to help us achieve salvation.

Rev. 1:20 – “This is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.”

Rev. 3:1 - “To the angel of the church in Sardis, write this: ‘The one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says this: “I know your works, that you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.” See the presence of the “seven angels” also in Rev. 1:4,20; 3:1; 8:2,6; Isaiah 63:9 and Tobit 12:15.

Gen. 16:6; 24:7; Judith 13:20; Hos. 12:4; 1 Kings 19:5 – other references to guardian angels.

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The Nine Choirs of Angels
Scripture reveals that God created nine choirs of angels (or three hierarchies of three choirs each, which reflect the Blessed Trinity):

1. Angels

These are the lowest choir of the angels and have the most interaction with human beings. There are over 200 references in Scripture of the “angels”:

Old Testament: Gen. 19:1,12,15; 48:16; Ex. 3:2; 14:9; 23:20; 23:23; 32:34; 33:2; Num. 20:16; 22:22-27; 31-32; 34-35; Deut. 32:43; Judges 2:1,4; 6:11-12; 20-22; 13:3,6,9,13,15-16,18,20-21; 1 Sam. 29:10; 2 Sam. 14:17,20; 19:27; 24:16-17; 1 Kings 13:18; 19:5,7; 2 Kings 1:3,15; 19:35; 1 Chron. 12:22; 21:12,15-16; 21:18, 27, 30; 32:21; Tobit 5:4,17,22-6:1,4-5,7; 11:14; 12:15,22; Esth. 11:13; 1 Macc. 7:41; 2 Macc. 11:6; 15:22-23; Job 4:18; 33:23; Psalm 34:7; 35:5-6; 91:11; 103:20; 148:2; Wis. 16:20; Isaiah 37:36; 63:9; Baruch 6:6; Dan. 3:28,49,58; 6:22; 13:55b,59b; 14:34,36,39; Hos. 12:4; Zech. 1:9,11-14,19; 2:3; 3:1-3,5-6; 4:4-5,10; 5:5,10; 6:4-5; 12:8.

New Testament: Matt. 1:20,24; 2:13,19; 4:6,11; 13:39,41,49; 16:27; 18:10; 22:30; 24:31,36; 25:31,41; 26:53; 28:2,5; Mark 1:13; 8:38; 12:25; 13:27; 13:32; Luke 1:11,13,18-19; Luke 1:26,30,34-35,38; 2:9-10; 2:13,15,21; 4:10; 9:26; 12:8-9; 15:10; 16:22; 20:36; 22:43; 24:23; John 1:51; 12:29; 20:12; Acts 5:19; 6:15; 7:30,35,38,53; 8:26; 10:3,7,22; 11:13; 12:7-11,15,23; 23:8-9; 27:23; Rom. 8:38; 1 Cor. 4:9; 6:3; 11:10; 2 Cor. 11:14; 12:7; Gal. 1:8; 3:19; 4:14; Col. 2:18; 2 Thess. 2:17; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Tim. 5:21; Heb. 1:4-7,13; 2:2,5,7,9,16; 12:22; 13:2; 1 Peter 1:12; 3:22; 2 Peter 2:4,11; Jude 1:6; Rev. 1:1,20-2:1,8,12,18; 3:1,5,7,14; 5:2,11; 7:1-2,11; 8:2-6,8,10,12-9:1,11,13-15; 10:1,5,7-9; 11:15; 12:7,9; 14:6,8-10; 14:15,17-19; 15:1,6-16:5,8,10,12,17; 17:1,7; 18:1,21; 19:9,17; 20:1; 21:9,12,17; 22:1,6,8,16.

2. Archangels

The archangels compromise another choir of the angels and possess special powers and duties, including announcing the end of the world and judgment:

1 Thess. 4:16 – “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first…”

Scripture reveals the names of three archangels: Michael, Gabriel and Raphael.

Michael

Dan. 10:13 – “but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia”

Dan. 10:21 – “but I shall tell you what is written in the truthful book. No one supports me against all these except Michael, your prince”

Dan. 12:1 – “At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time. At that time your people shall escape, everyone who is found written in the book.”

Jude: 1:9 – “Yet the archangel Michael, when he argued with the devil in a dispute over the body of Moses, did not venture to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him but said, “May the Lord rebuke you!”

Rev. 12:7 – “Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon.”

Gabriel

Dan. 8:16 – “and on the Ulai I heard a human voice that cried out, “Gabriel, explain the vision to this man.”

Dan. 9:21 – “I was still occupied with this prayer, when Gabriel, the one whom I had seen before in vision, came to me in rapid flight at the time of the evening sacrifice.”

Luke 1:19 - “And the angel said to him in reply, “I am Gabriel, who stand before God. I was sent to speak to you and to announce to you this good news.”

Luke 1:26 – “In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth…”

Raphael

Tobit 3:17 – “So Raphael was sent to heal them both: to remove the cataracts from Tobit’s eyes, so that he might again see God’s sunlight; and to marry Raguel’s daughter Sarah to Tobit’s son Tobiah, and then drive the wicked demon Asmodeus from her.”

Tobit 5:4 – “Tobiah went to look for someone acquainted with the roads who would travel with him to Media. As soon as he went out, he found the angel Raphael standing before him, though he did not know that this was an angel of God.”

Tobit 5:8 – “Raphael replied, “Very well, I will wait for you; but do not be long.”

Tobit 5:10 – “When Raphael entered the house, Tobit greeted him first. Raphael said, “Hearty greetings to you!” Tobit replied: “What joy is left for me any more? Here I am, a blind man who cannot see God’s sunlight, but must remain in darkness, like the dead who no longer see the light! Though alive, I am among the dead. I can hear a man’s voice, but I cannot see him.” Raphael said, “Take courage! God has healing in store for you; so take courage!” Tobit then said: “My son Tobiah wants to go to Media. Can you go with him to show him the way? I will of course pay you, brother.” Raphael answered: “Yes, I can go with him, for I know all the routes. I have often traveled to Media and crossed all its plains and mountains; so I know every road well.”

Tobit 5:12-13 - “Raphael said: “Why? Do you need a tribe and a family? Or are you looking for a hired man to travel with your son?” Tobit replied, “I wish to know truthfully whose son you are, brother, and what your name is.” Raphael answered, “I am Azariah, son of Hananiah the elder, one of your own kinsmen.”

Tobit 5:16 – “I will even add a bonus to your wages!” Raphael replied: “I will go with him; have no fear. In good health we shall leave you, and in good health we shall return to you, for the way is safe.”

Tobit 6:11- “Raphael said to the boy, “Brother Tobiah!” He answered, “Yes, what is it?” Raphael continued: “Tonight we must stay with Raguel, who is a relative of yours.”

Tobit 6:16 – “Raphael said to him: “Do you not remember your father’s orders? He commanded you to marry a woman from your own family. So now listen to me, brother; do not give another thought to this demon, but marry Sarah. I know that tonight you shall have her for your wife!”

Tobit 6:18 – “When Tobiah heard Raphael say that she was his kinswoman, of his own family’s lineage, he fell deeply in love with her, and his heart became set on her.”

Tobit 7:9 – “Afterward, Raguel slaughtered a ram from the flock and gave them a cordial reception. When they had bathed and reclined to eat, Tobiah said to Raphael, “Brother Azariah, ask Raguel to let me marry my kinswoman Sarah.”

Tobit 8:3 – “The demon, repelled by the odor of the fish, fled into Upper Egypt; Raphael pursued him there and bound him hand and foot. Then Raphael returned immediately.”

Tobit 9:1 – “Then Tobiah called Raphael and said to him…”

Tobit 9:5 – “So Raphael, together with the four servants and two camels, traveled to Rages in Media, where they stayed at Gabael’s house. Raphael gave Gabael his bond and told him about Tobit’s son Tobiah, and that he had married and was inviting him to the wedding celebration. Gabael promptly checked over the sealed moneybags, and they placed them on the camels.”

Tobit 11:1 – “Then they left and began their return journey. When they were near Kaserin, just before Nineveh, Raphael said…”

Tobit 11:4 - So they both went on ahead and Raphael said to Tobiah, “Have the gall in your hand!” And the dog ran along behind them.”

Tobit 11:7 – “Raphael said to Tobiah before he reached his father: “I am certain that his eyes will be opened.”

Tobit 12:5-6 – “So Tobiah called Raphael and said, “Take as your wages half of all that you have brought back, and go in peace. Raphael called the two men aside privately and said to them: “Thank God! Give him the praise and the glory. Before all the living, acknowledge the many good things he has done for you, by blessing and extolling his name in song. Before all men, honor and proclaim God’s deeds, and do not be slack in praising him.”

Tobit 12:15 – “I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord.” See also Rev. 1:4,20; 3:1; 8:2,6; and Isaiah 63:9 which refer to these seven angels which serve the Lord in heaven.

Tobit 12:17 – “But Raphael said to them: “No need to fear; you are safe. Thank God now and forever.”

Tobit 12:20 – “So now get up from the ground and praise God. Behold, I am about to ascend to him who sent me; write down all these things that have happened to you. When Raphael ascended…”

3. Principalities

The word “principalities” (or “princes”) comes from the Greek arche (plural is archai) which comes from archomai, meaning “beginning” or “commencement.” The Latin is princeps (singular) and principates (plural). The Hebrew sar has the same meaning.

Rom. 8:38 – “For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers…”

Eph. 3:10 – “so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.”

Eph. 6:12 – “For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.”

Col. 1:16 – “For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.”

Col. 2:15 – “despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.”

4. Powers

The word “power” comes from the Greek exousia, which literally means power that is “out of” (ex) the “substantial being” (ousia). The Latin is potestatem.

Eph. 1:21- “far above every principality, power, virtue, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come.”

1 Peter 3:22 – “who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, powers and virtues subject to him.”

5. Virtues

The word “virtue” comes from the Greek dunamis (plural, dunamies) which connotes strength and the ability to do something powerful. The Latin is virtus (plural, virtutes).

Eph. 1:21- “far above every principality, power, virtue, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come.”

1 Peter 3:22 – “who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, powers and virtues subject to him.”

6. Dominations

The word “dominations” (or “dominions”) comes from the Greek kyriotes (plural, kyriotetes) and connotes lordship, authority and sovereignty. The source word Kyrios is used to refer to God in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint). See also examples in the New Testament, such as Luke 1:43, where Elizabeth asks Mary, “How is it that the mother of my Kyrios (Lord) should come to me?” This is why Catholics call Mary the “Mother of God” (because God inspired Elizabeth to say the same thing).

Eph. 1:21 – “far above every principality, power, virtue, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come.”

Col. 1:16 – “For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.”

7. Thrones

The word “thrones” comes from the Greek thronos (plural, thronoi) and refers to the seat of majesty, which God shares with His angels (see Ex. 3; 13:21; 14:19; 33:14; Judges 6; 13; Acts 7:31-33).

Col. 1:16 – “For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.”

8. Cherubim

The word “cherubim” probably comes from the Hebrew word qareb which means “near,” which is usually used in the context of coming near to God to offer worship or sacrifice. Hence, the angels are intimately involved in assisting at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Gen. 3:24 – “When he expelled the man, he settled him east of the garden of Eden; and he stationed the cherubim and the fiery revolving sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.”

Psalm 80:1 – “Shepherd of Israel, listen, guide of the flock of Joseph! From your throne upon the cherubim reveal yourself.”

Psalm 99:1 – “The LORD is king, the peoples tremble; God is enthroned on the cherubim, the earth quakes.”

Isaiah 37:16 – “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned upon the cherubim! You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made the heavens and the earth.”

Ezekiel 10:1-4: “Then I looked, and behold, on the firmament that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in form resembling a throne. And he said to the man clothed in linen, Go in among the whirling wheels underneath the cherubim; fill your hands with burning coals from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city. And he went in before my eyes. Now the cherubim were standing on the south side of the house, when the man went in; and a cloud filled the inner court.” See also the remaining verses 4-22.

Dan. 3:55 - “Blessed are you who look into the depths from your throne upon the cherubim, praiseworthy and exalted above all forever.”

Ex. 25:18; 25:20; 26:1,31; 26:31; 36:8; 36:35; 37:7,9; Num. 7:89; 1 Sam. 4:4; 2 Sam. 6:2; 1 Kings 6:23,25,27-29, 32,35; 7:29,36; 8:6-7; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chron. 13:6; 28:18; 2 Chron. 3:7,10-11,13-14; 5:7-8; Ezek. 41:18,20,25; Heb. 9:5 – the cherubim are also made into images to facilitate the worship of God.

9. Seraphim

The word “seraphim” is from the Hebrew sarap which means “to burn.” Thus, seraphim are known as the “burning ones” which reflect their burning love for God.

Isaiah 6:2 – “Seraphim were stationed above; each of them had six wings: with two they veiled their faces, with two they veiled their feet, and with two they hovered aloft.”

Isaiah 6:6 – “Then one of the seraphim flew to me, holding an ember which he had taken with tongs from the altar.”

Ezek. 1:13 – “In among the living creatures something like burning coals of fire could be seen; they seemed like torches, moving to and fro among the living creatures. The fire gleamed, and from it came forth flashes of lightning.”

Num. 21:4-9 – “From Mount Hor they set out on the Red Sea road, to by-pass the land of Edom. But with their patience worn out by the journey, the people complained against God and Moses, “Why have you brought us up from Egypt to die in this desert, where there is no food or water? We are disgusted with this wretched food!” In punishment the LORD sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the LORD and you. Pray the LORD to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the LORD said to Moses, “Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover.”

Gen. 3:1-15; Rev. 12:3-4,7-9,12-13,15,17; 20:2 – suggests that Satan is a fallen Seraph (the evil “seraph serpent” which is also alluded to in Num. 21:4-9).

From http://www.scripturecatholic.com/angels.html

4 posted on 07/07/2007 5:20:53 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: ConservativeMind

There are also many examples of the early Christians

Here is just one

Clement of Alexandria Miscellanies 7:12 208 AD

In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer].


5 posted on 07/07/2007 5:26:54 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Tribune7

ping


6 posted on 07/07/2007 5:41:48 PM PDT by Temple Owl (Excelsior! Onward and upward.)
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To: Tribune7

ping


7 posted on 07/07/2007 5:41:53 PM PDT by Temple Owl (Excelsior! Onward and upward.)
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To: stfassisi

I have read through all the verses you posted in response to my question, and not one of them answers what I asked.

In fact, Scripture you quote seems to show that people never should pray to angels, with one quoted verse showing an angel interrupting a man’s prayer to God (not to the angel):

Dan. 9:21 – “I was still occupied with this prayer, when Gabriel, the one whom I had seen before in vision, came to me in rapid flight at the time of the evening sacrifice.”

So again I ask, where in Scripture does it ever give validity to praying to angels rather than to God Himself???

Stop playing around and please refer me to something of substance. I’m not arguing against the existence of angels here.


8 posted on 07/07/2007 5:50:13 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind

Tobit 12:15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One.


9 posted on 07/07/2007 5:53:28 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

Even if I give you Tobit as a part of the Holy Bible (to which I would not normally agree), that verse says nothing about praying to angels but rather that a certain angel is one that will walk the prayers over to God He must hear.

Angels have no authority over our salvation nor over God. We are to pray to God and no other beings. Angels are not to be given our adoration but instead the One who sends them should be.


10 posted on 07/07/2007 5:57:52 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind
Really, Dear friend.
This is overwhelmingly scriptural and part of Early Christian History.

More examples

God Desires and Responds to Our Subordinate Mediation / Intercessory Prayer
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (”sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.

1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.

Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God’s people.

James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected.

1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.

Here are the Writings of the Early Christians-Some were direct Disciples of the Apostles like Saint Polycarp who was a direct Disciple of Saint John.
Are you going to say Saint John n is a lier?

“[T]hat it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples! The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps.” Martyrdom of Polycarp 17,18 (A.D. 157).

“[Appealing to the three companions of Daniel] Think of me, I beseech you, so that I may achieve with you the same fate of martyrdom.” Hippolytus of Rome, On Daniel, 11:30 (A.D. 204).

“As often as the anniversary comes round, we make offerings for the dead as birthday honours.” Tertullian, The Crown, 3 (A.D. 211).

“Nor is that kind of title to glories in the case of Celerinus, our beloved, an unfamiliar and novel thing. He is advancing in the footsteps of his kindred; he rivals his parents and relations in equal honours of divine condescension. His grandmother, Celerina, was some time since crowned with martyrdom. Moreover, his paternal and maternal uncles, Laurentius and Egnatius, who themselves also were once warring in the camps of the world, but were true and spiritual soldiers of God, casting down the devil by the confession of Christ, merited palms and crowns from the Lord by their illustrious passion. We always offer sacrifices for them, as you remember, as often as we celebrate the passions and days of the martyrs in the annual commemoration. Nor could he, therefore, be degenerate and inferior whom this family dignity and a generous nobility provoked, by domestic examples of virtue and faith. But if in a worldly family it is a matter of heraldry and of praise to be a patrician, of bow much greater praise and honour is it to become of noble rank in the celestial heraldry! I cannot tell whom I should call more blessed,—whether those ancestors, for a posterity so illustrious, or him, for an origin so glorious. So equally between them does the divine condescension flow, and pass to and fro, that, just as the dignity of their offspring brightens their crown, so the sublimity of his ancestry illuminates his glory.” Cyprian, To Clergy and People, Epistle 33(39):3 (A.D. 250).

“I am also of opinion that there were many persons of the same name with John the apostle, who by their love for him, and their admiration and emulation of him, and their desire to be loved by the Lord as he was loved, were induced to embrace also the same designation, just as we find many of the children of the faithful called by the names of Paul and Peter.” Dionysius of Alexandria, Books of Promises, 5 (A.D. 257).

“Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9 (A.D. 350).

“Thus might you console us; but what of the flock? Would you first promise the oversight and leadership of yourself, a man under whose wings we all would gladly repose, and for whose words we thirst more eagerly than men suffering from thirst for the purest fountain? Secondly, persuade us that the good shepherd who laid down his life for the sheep has not even now left us; but is present, and tends and guides, and knows his own, and is known of his own, and, though bodily invisible, is spiritually recognized, and defends his flock against the wolves, and allows no one to climb over into the fold as a robber and traitor; to pervert and steal away, by the voice of strangers, souls under the fair guidance of the truth. Aye, I am well assured that his intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay which obscured it, and holds intercourse naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest Mind; being promoted, if it be not rash to say so, to the rank and confidence of an angel.” John Chrysostom, On the Death of his Father, Oration 18:4 (A.D. 374).

“He voluntarily undertook all the toil of the journey; he moderated the energy of the faithful on the spot; he persuaded opponents by his arguments; in the presence of priests and deacons, and of many others who fear the Lord, he took up the relics with all becoming reverence, and has aided the brethren in their preservation. These relics do you receive with a joy equivalent to the distress with which their custodians have parted with them and sent them to you. Let none dispute; let none doubt. Here you have that unconquered athlete. These bones, which shared in the conflict with the blessed soul, are known to the Lord. These bones He will crown, together with that soul, in the righteous day of His requital, as it is written, ‘we must stand before the judgment seat of Christ, that each may give an account of the deeds he has done in the body.’ One coffin held that honoured corpse. None other lay by his side. The burial was a noble one; the honours of a martyr were paid him. Christians who had welcomed him as a guest and then with their own hands laid him in the grave, have now disinterred him. They have wept as men bereaved of a father and a champion. But they have sent him to you, for they put your joy before their own consolation. Pious were the hands that gave; scrupulously careful were the hands that received. There has been no room for deceit; no room for guile. I bear witness to this. Let the untainted truth be accepted by you.” Basil, To Ambrose bishop of Milan, Epistle 197 (A.D. 375).

“Furthermore, as to mentioning the names of the dead, how is there anything very useful in that? What is more timely or more excellent than that those who are still here should believe that the departed do live, and that they have not retreated into nothingness, but that they exist and are alive with the Master...Useful too is the prayer fashioned on their behalf...For we make commemoration of the just and of sinners: of sinners, begging God’s mercy for them; of the just and the Fathers and Patriarchs and Prophets and Apostles and Evangelists and martyrs and confessors, and of bishops and solitaries, and of the whole list of them...” Epiphanius, Panarion, 75:8 (A.D. 377).

“Only may that power come upon us which strengthens weakness, through the prayers of him[i.e. St. Paul] who made his own strength perfect in bodily weakness.” Gregory of Nyssa, Against Eunomius, 1:1(A.D. 380).

“But God forbid that any in this fair assembly should appear there suffering such things! but by the prayers of the holy fathers, correcting all our offences, and having shown forth the abundant fruit of virtue, may we depart hence with much confidence.” John Chrysostom, On Statues, Homily 6:19 (A.D. 387).

“As to our paying honor to the memory of the martyrs, and the accusation of Faustus, that we worship them instead of idols, I should not care to answer such a charge, were it not for the sake of showing how Faustus, in his desire to cast reproach on us, has overstepped the Manichaean inventions, and has fallen heedlessly into a popular notion found in Pagan poetry, although he is so anxious to be distinguished from the Pagans. For in saying that we have turned the idols into martyrs, be speaks of our worshipping them with similar rites, and appeasing the shades of the departed with wine and food It is true that Christians pay religious honor to the memory of the martyrs, both to excite us to imitate them and to obtain a share in their merits, and the assistance of their prayers. But we build altars not to any martyr, but to the God of martyrs, although it is to the memory of the martyrs. No one officiating at the altar in the saints’ burying-place ever says, We bring an offering to thee, O Peter! or O Paul! or O Cyprian! The offering is made to God, who gave the crown of martyrdom, while it is in memory of those thus crowned. The emotion is increased by the associations of the place, and. love is excited both towards those who are our examples, and towards Him by whose help we may follow such examples. We regard the martyrs with the same affectionate intimacy that we feel towards holy men of God in this life, when we know that their hearts are prepared to endure the same suffering for the truth of the gospel. There is more devotion in our feeling towards the martyrs, because we know that their conflict is over; and we can speak with greater confidence in praise of those already victors in heaven, than of those still combating here.” Augustine, Against Faustus, 20:21 (A.D. 400).

“We, it is true, refuse to worship or adore, I say not the relics of the martyrs, but even the sun and moon, the angels and archangels, the Cherubim and Seraphim and ‘every name that is named, not only in this world but also in that which is to come.’ For we may not “serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Still we honour the relics of the martyrs, that we may adore Him whose martyrs they are. We honour the servants that their honour may be reflected upon their Lord who Himself says:—’he that receiveth you receiveth me.’ I ask Vigilantius, Are the relics of Peter and of Paul unclean? Was the body of Moses unclean, of which we are told (according to the correct Hebrew text) that it was buried by the Lord Himself? And do we, every time that we enter the basilicas of apostles and prophets and martyrs, pay homage to the shrines of idols? Are the tapers which burn before their tombs only the tokens of idolatry? I will go farther still and ask a question which will make this theory recoil upon the head of its inventor and which will either kill or cure that frenzied brain of his, so that simple souls shall be no more subverted by his sacrilegious reasonings. Let him answer me this, Was the Lord’s body unclean when it was placed in the sepulchre? And did the angels clothed in white raiment merely watch over a corpse dead and defiled, that ages afterwards this sleepy fellow might indulge in dreams and vomit forth his filthy surfeit, so as, like the persecutor Julian, either to destroy the basilicas of the saints or to convert them into heathen temples?” Jerome, To Riparius, Epistle 109:1 (A.D. 404).

“For you say that the souls of Apostles and martyrs have their abode either in the bosom of Abraham, or in the place of refreshment, or under the altar of God, and that they cannot leave their own tombs, and be present there they will And while the devil and the demons wander through the whole world, and with only too great speed present themselves everywhere; are martyrs, after the shedding of their blood, to be kept out of sight shut up in a coffin, from whence they cannot escape? You say, in your pamphlet, that so long as we are alive we can pray for one another; but once we die, the prayer of no person for another can be heard, and all the more because the martyrs, though they cry for the avenging of their blood, have never been able to obtain their request. If Apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, when they ought still to be anxious for themselves, how much more must they do so when once they have won their crowns, overcome, and triumphed? A single man, Moses, oft wins pardon from God for six hundred thousand armed men; and Stephen, the follower of his Lord and the first Christian martyr, entreats pardon for his persecutors; and when once they have entered on their life with Christ, shall they have less power than before? The Apostle Paul says that two hundred and seventy-six souls were given to him in the ship; and when, after his dissolution, he has begun to be with Christ, must he shut his mouth, and be unable to say a word for those who throughout the whole world have believed in his Gospel? Shall Vigilantius the live dog be better than Paul the dead lion? I should be right in saying so after Ecclesiastes, if I admitted that Paul is dead in spirit. The truth is that the saints are not called dead, but are said to be asleep. Wherefore Lazarus, who was about to rise again, is said to have slept. And the Apostle forbids the Thessalonians to be sorry for those who were asleep.” Jerome, Against Vigilantius, 6 (A.D. 406).

11 posted on 07/07/2007 6:00:05 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

Poppycock!

From 1 Timothy 2:1-5 this person starts his decent down a bad slide.

“Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?”

Paul is only asking people (not the dead, “dead saints”, or angels) to pray to God for help for others when asking for intercessions. In fact, the definition for “intercessory prayer” is prayer to God on behalf of another (”In Christian practice, intercessory prayer is the act of one person praying for or on behalf of another person or situation. The prayer intercedes on behalf of the subject, in the hope that God will answer the prayer accordingly. — http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=2&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession&usg=AFQjCNFXCeDENzBy4CQbwhVLwTmp1Bv8eQ)

This has nothing to do with prayer to angels ever being encouraged or condoned by anyone who is still alive. And apparently nothing you offer from Scripture shows any validity for praying to saints or angels.

All who are in Christ are saints. Only those who are alive can pray and still change their position with God.

Your only hope of saving your position is quoting “early Church fathers” who, frankly, are putting their own twist on the Word. Remember, there were many even in the Apostles’ time who were mimicking the Apostles and twisting Christ’s words.

The Scripture speaks for itself. “Early church fathers” do not have any authority to change the meanings of what are obviously different words in Scripture.


12 posted on 07/07/2007 6:24:07 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind
“The Scripture speaks for itself. “Early church fathers” do not have any authority to change the meanings of what are obviously different words in Scripture.”

Obviously you do not understand Christian History.

Christianity did not grow out of the Bible.
The Bible grew out of Christianity

Traditions of the Apostles came first, the Scriptures came next. God gave His Gospel orally first. The Apostles gave it to others orally first. The Scriptures didn’t come until AT LEAST ten years later.. Thus, the first ten years at least saw Christianity spread without any Gospel writings, any Epistles, etc. Later, when these same men of God wrote letters and the narratives of the Gospels, they naturally taught the SAME thing that they taught orally earlier to others. Thus, the oral teachings preceded the written ones, and the written ones did not overturn the oral ones. Nor does it say anywhere that oral teachings are encapsulated completely within the Scriptures. This is a Protestant assumption that is proven incorrect based on the writings of the first Christians.

Infallible teaching is not “based” on Scripture, but is based on the Apostle’s teachings - they first came orally. Then, some of the Apostles wrote letters and narratives. These were accepted by the Church as being in line with what they had ALREADY LEARNED. Later, some men wrote down the oral traditions (like infant Baptism) as coming from the Apostles also. This was accepted by the Church and later declared infallibly suited for belief among Catholics under the guidance of the Spirit. The Scripture and this Tradition CANNOT disagree. They work together.

When did the Church declare that Jesus was God as dogma? At the council of Nicea in 325 AD. Nearly 300 years after Christ’s death, correct? Does that mean that the Church DID NOT already believe this? Of course it did! Jesus was worshiped during the liturgy. People prayed to Him during their daily prayers and through their actions. The Church already KNEW that Jesus was God - the Church DEFINES that He was God infallibly based on the guidance of the Spirit ALREADY AT WORK in the Church.

Protestant belief on issues such as Angels ,Saints,Blessed Mother, Sacraments etc.. are mostly based on lies of the reformers and have NO base in Christian History

13 posted on 07/07/2007 6:40:50 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: ConservativeMind; dsc; Macoraba; gizmogirl; voiceinthewind; Ross Jeffries; DieHard the Hunter; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

So again I ask, where in Scripture does it ever give validity to praying to angels rather than to God Himself???
Please help our Protestant brother understand this key and fundamental concept of Christian belief.
14 posted on 07/07/2007 7:25:51 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: ConservativeMind

Maybe you are having trouble with the word prayer.

Catholics “pray” to Mary, the saints and their angels in the same way that old English speakers used “pray tell” or
as a verb to beg or ask.http://www.wordreference.com/definition/pray

What they ask for in intercession for someone or something to God. It is like me asking you to pray for me.

Prayer to God is just that, worship, petition, thanksgiving repentence.

Catholics are not bound purely by Scripture. They have since the beginning of the Church been guided by tradition also.


15 posted on 07/07/2007 7:57:31 PM PDT by amihow
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To: narses; ConservativeMind
“”Please help our Protestant brother understand this key and fundamental concept of Christian belief.””

OK!

Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints – and He obviously would not have been worshiping them in so doing – then so can we, who need their help infinitely more than Jesus, and without engaging in idolatry. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.

Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.

Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.

2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other’s prayers.

Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another’s burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.

Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.

Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?

Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians’ earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.

1 Thess. 5:11 - Paul charges us to encourage one another and build one another up, in the body of Christ. We do this as mediators in Christ.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says “pray constantly.” If Jesus’ role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?

1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation.

2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ’s mediation because Christ desires this.

2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered.

1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.

2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”

Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon’s intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon.

Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God.

Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)

Tobit 12:12,15 - angels place Tobit and Sarah’s prayers before the Holy One. This teaches us that the angels are also our subordinate mediators. We pray to the angels to take up our prayers to God.

Job 42:7-9 - Job prayed for three friends in sin and God listened to Job as a result of these prayers.

Psalm 34:7 – the angel of the Lord delivers those who fear him.

Psalm 91:11 – God will give His angels charge of you, to guard you in all your ways.

Psalm 103:20-21; 148:1-2 – we praise the angels and ask for their assistance in doing God’s will.

Psalm 141:2 - David asks that his prayer be counted as incense before God. The prayers of the saints have powerful effects.

Isaiah 6:6-7 - an angel touches Isaiah’s lips and declares that his sin is forgiven. The angel is a subordinate mediator of God who effects the forgiveness of sins on God’s behalf.

Jer. 7:16 - God acknowledges the people’s ability to intercede, but refuses to answer due to the hardness of heart.

Jer. 15:1 – the Lord acknowledges the intercessory power of Moses and Samuel.

You see! We are All glorious participants in God,s plan if we freely submit to His will and Love.

A Guardian Angel is watching over us.
Jesus sent this Angel.
This Angel is part of God,s plan for us!

I wish everyone A blessed Evening!

Good Night!

16 posted on 07/07/2007 8:04:43 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: ConservativeMind

> Where in Scripture does it say that we can or should pray to an angel rather than to God Himself?

So long as you do both, where is the harm?

I have a good friend who believes that you should *not* pray to God Himself, but rather to Jesus. His rationale (which is difficult to argue against) is that Jesus is our mediator — our go-between. He stands between us and God, and mediates our supplications to God on our behalf. It therefore makes sense to speak to Jesus, not to God: else we are not using him as a “mediator” in the true sense of the word.

Of course, Christ’s own example with the Lord’s Prayer serves as an example of how we should pray to God directly. That said, He wasn’t acting as a Mediator at the time He gave that example.

So, some folk want to invoke Saints and Guardian Angels — notably they would be Catholic — I guess I wonder where the harm is in that. It wouldn’t be the first time man spoke to an Angel, or Angels spoke to man.

Where is the harm?


17 posted on 07/07/2007 9:54:58 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter
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To: stfassisi

I don’t know if it was my guardian angel, but the angel that led me from temptation last month was a tall man with a weathered face and tired eyes.


18 posted on 07/08/2007 7:23:47 PM PDT by bradthebuilder (War is peace; Ignorance is strength; Freedom is slavery)
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To: stfassisi

This is beautiful, thanks, I needed this!


19 posted on 07/08/2007 7:45:25 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: stfassisi
Guardian Angels

Guardian Angels
Memorial
October 2nd



Pietro da Cortona
The Guardian Angel, 1656
Oil on canvas, 225 x 143 cm
Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Antica, Rome

 

Prayer:
Angel of God, my Guardian dear,
to whom His love commits me here,
ever this day be at my side,
to light and guard, to rule and guide, Amen.

Latin:
Angele Dei

Ángele Dei,
qui custos es mei,
me, tibi commíssum pietáte supérna,
illúmina, custódi,
rege et gubérna.
Amen.

History:
That every individual soul has a guardian angel has never been defined by the Church, and is, consequently, not an article of faith; but it is the "mind of the Church", as St. Jerome expressed it: "how great the dignity of the soul, since each one has from his birth an angel commissioned to guard it."

In the Bible this doctrine is clearly discernible and its development is well marked. In Genesis 28-29, angels not only act as the executors of God's wrath against the cities of the plain, but they deliver Lot from danger; in Exodus 12-13, an angel is the appointed leader of the host of Israel, and in 32:34, God says to Moses: "my angel shall go before thee." At a much later period we have the story of Tobias, which might serve for a commentary on the words of Psalm 90:11: "For he hath given his angels charge over thee; to keep thee in all thy ways." (Cf. Psalm 33:8 and 34:5.) Lastly, in Daniel 10 angels are entrusted with the care of particular districts; one is called "prince of the kingdom of the Persians", and Michael is termed "one of the chief princes"; cf. Deuteronomy 32:8; and Ecclesiasticus 17:17.

This sums up the Old Testament doctrine on the point; it is clear that the Old Testament conceived of God's angels as His ministers who carried out his behests, and who were at times given special commissions, regarding men and mundane affairs. There is no special teaching; the doctrine is rather taken for granted than expressly laid down; cf. 2 Machabees 3:25; 10:29; 11:6; 15:23.

But in the New Testament the doctrine is stated with greater precision. Angels are everywhere the intermediaries between God and man; and Christ set a seal upon the Old Testament teaching: "See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10). A twofold aspect of the doctrine is here put before us: even little children have guardian angels, and these same angels lose not the vision of God by the fact that they have a mission to fulfil on earth.

Without dwelling on the various passages in the New Testament where the doctrine of guardian angels is suggested, it may suffice to mention the angel who succoured Christ in the garden, and the angel who delivered St. Peter from prison. Hebrews 1:14 puts the doctrine in its clearest light: "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent to minister for them, who shall receive the inheritance of salvation?" This is the function of the guardian angels; they are to lead us, if we wish it, to the Kingdom of Heaven.

(Principal source - Catholic Encyclopedia - 1913 edition )

Collect:
God our Father,
in your loving providence
you send your holy angels to watch over us.
Hear our prayers,
defend us always by their protection
and let us share your life with them for ever.
We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

First Reading: Exodus 23: 20-23
"Behold, I send an angel before you, to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place which I have prepared. Give heed to him and hearken to his voice, do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression; for my name is in him.

"But if you hearken attentively to his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

"When my angel goes before you, and brings you in to the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I blot them out.

Second Reading(places where it is a Solemnity): Revelation 12:7-12
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

Gospel Reading: Matthew 18:1-5, 10
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

"Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me.

"See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.

Related Article: The Church and the Holy Angels(Michaelmas 2007 Issue)

20 posted on 10/02/2007 2:46:53 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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