Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
————————————————-
(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Okay
I'm confused....did your first wife pass away? And now you have a new wife? I'm just trying to understand...
An alternative theory on cancer (How Darwinism hinders the "War on Cancer")
Posted by Edward Watson to GodGunsGuts
On News/Activism 06/28/2007 2:47:10 AM PDT · 32 of 125
Very interesting - too bad my wife died from cancer four years ago, too early to benefit from this discovery (if it eventually proves correct).
I suppose if my first wife died....I'd not call her my "wife" if I had a new wife....
Maybe I'm mistaken, here. And if it's just a slip of the tongue....just tell me, and I will understand. I have been personally effected by cancer..and in no way mean to take advantage of your circumstance.
Like I said...I just found your comment odd.
Tell me if I'm wrong here.....
Well, if someone’s first wife died and he has a new wife, then I can understand his defense of Mormonism (unfounded IMO). He would believe in eternal polygamous marriage where both of his wives and all of his children would be sealed to him for eternity. They have the potential to become god and godesses and rule over worlds of their own creation - - very temptimg for those who are bereaved.
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers,”
Alma got it all wrong.
Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
It's probably nothing.....
Also I loved my late wife with everything I have. I've repeatedly extended my hands in friendship to her family since her death but to them I'm the devil because I signed a DNR order that prohibited them from forcing the doctors to resuscitate my wife. They've said terrible things against me and have even abused my second wife whom I met long after the funeral of my first and have even tried to brainwash my children against their stepmother whenever they visit the in-laws. I'm just happy my kids aren't so gullible because they know their step-mom is a wonderful woman who loves them and treats them like they were her own. In the thread "Michael Schiavo's side of the story [sicko' barf-ola ALERT]"
On other threads, the apologists’ spin has been that Bethlehem is a suburb of Jerusalem.
Oink!
Maybe TODAY, but then it was 5-6 miles...
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/images/jer_maps/Projectedgrowth.html
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers,”
Alma got it all wrong.
It's an easy mistake to make...
Matthew 2:4-16
4. When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born.
5. "In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
6. "`But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.' "
7. Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.
8. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."
9. After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.
10. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.
11. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
12. And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.
13. When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him."
14. So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,
15. where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."
16. When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
Luke 2:1-15
1. In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.
2. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.)
3. And everyone went to his own town to register.
4. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.
5. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.
6. While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born,
7. and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
8. And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night.
9. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
10. But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.
11. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
12. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."
13. Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14. "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."
15. When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let's go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about."
To: MHGinTN Sure sounds like another mindless, irrational fanatic with nothing better to do. 533 posted on 07/10/2007 1:44:34 PM MDT by Edward Watson
To: MHGinTN Geez, another self-righteous, intolerant fanatic ... 580 posted on 07/10/2007 4:40:25 PM MDT by Edward Watson
To Greg F I’ll keep your character in mind whenever I respond to you. a “Christian” indeed. 571 posted on 07/10/2007 4:23:43 PM MDT by Edward Watson
Pearls before swine Elsie, pearls before swine. 663 posted on 07/11/2007 7:05:00 AM MDT by Edward Watson
keep it up since liars will receive their just rewards. Is this another case of “Lying for the Lord”? Jesus must be so proud of you!Posted by Edward Watson to Elsie On Religion 07/11/2007 6:47:49 AM MDT · 654 of 690
And MHGinTN gets a warning for "Such a scholar [/sarcasm], such a poor deluded man", while Watson doesn't?
Better late than never!
(But it DOES seem a bit one-sided.)
Maybe he(?) started at the end of the thread and is working forwards...
LOL.
Golly, thats funny.
When Joe was making up his ‘scriptures’ he didn’t have a working knowledge of the entire Bible, so you can cut him some slack. NOW if God made a mistake like that, well, let’s just say there’s a certain apologist lurking who would accuse Him of something for it, though only God knows what’s in that heart.
Just not fair or right to dredge through this. Please lay off it. John 8:7.
It was a ‘half day’s walk’ in Joseph and Mary’s day.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.