Our Mormon Brothers?

Reformed Evangelist ^ | May 14th, 2007 | Jeff Fuller

[Utah Girl]

I don’t know. I went to the temple for the first time in 1997, so....

[MarkBsnr]

Thank you. I wonder if some LDS members with more longevity might care to comment.

[DelphiUser]

It's a 'problem' for me (and you, too) that I can find NOWHERE in your Scriptures that REQUIRES you to 'do' the things that you 'do' in the temple.

Your inability to find something in the scriptures that is plainly there is not a problem for me, it is required, the requirement came form modern day scripture, God told me the church was true, so the scriptures that it provides are also true, just like the bible is true because Jesus tells us it is. Once you have a testimony of the truthfulness of the church, everything else falls into place. The Bible, the BOM, the D&C the PGP all fit together neatly like the pieces of a puzzle. Are there more pieces? Yes, but we have all that is required to do complete all the ordinances and save ourselves with all our dead as was prophesied in the Bible. MALACHI 4:5-6

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The meaning of this scripture is made clear with modern revelation, we are to do the great geneological work that we are indeed doing. We are commanded to care for our ancestors who had no opportunity to have the saving ordinances done for themselves, we are so commanded and it mattereth not that you do not understand it, for We Mormons, we do. We will keep the commands of the Lord. whether they be found in the Book of Mormon, the Bible or the D&C or the PGP, we, the sheep of the fold know his voice, and we are harkening to it. If ye be goats and harken not, that is not our job, we are commanded to spread the word, so we do, we are commanded to go out into the world as missionaries, so we do. No amount of posting, prevaricating, complaining or dire predicting can stop the work of God which I testify to you this is.

[DelphiUser]

Oh??

Like what?

Like the very things you are asking about here.

[DelphiUser]

I said I thought I had made that clear, perhaps not.

You said: Once again; you failed to answered the question of WHY you do it.

I am NOT asking you to 'reveal' any of your precious secrets; just the justification for keeping them secret.

This is actually very simple, If I come to you in confidence, and say:

"You have to swear to me you not tell any one what I am going to say..." IF you agree, so you can hear what secret I am going to impart, you are bound, or a liar one of the two.

Why would you keep it secret? Because you are honest.

IF what you are being told is supposed to be kept form someone else like a birthday party's time, or keys and tokens needed to return to God, then you keep them sacred, secret if you don't believe the commitment was to God, but you "keep" to your self that which you covenanted to, or you are a liar.

It's that simple.

You Said: Is THAT a big SACRED thing you cannot reveal as well??

Simply put, our justification is that we gave our word.

[greyfoxx39]

FIP magic decoder ring PLACEMARK

[DelphiUser]

The Catholics would have us believe that once Jesus established his church, it would never be taken form the earth. This is in direct crontravention of the Bible even though they tried to eliminate as many of the books of scripture as they could that had such refrences in them, some slipped through.

(See how it can be made to look?)

Sadly with the institution of the Nicene creed (IMHO), the apostasy away from the teachings started by Jesus Christ was complete.

Are you disputing Greek philospohical influence on early christianity?

Arius had it right, in spite of your attempts to display him in as bad of a light as you can, so did Hippolytus who was the voice of the church in his day. Hippolytus fought against the greek influence that started to change the definition of God, from being one of Corporeal, sperate entities to one of a Greek influenced shapless formless immaterial being, from one of our father, who looks like us to one of a Being who has no appearance and who's realtionship with us is of a more tenuous nature.

If you honestly study this searching for the truth, you will find truth, if you look only at attack models, you will find only what you seek, not what is true.

[DelphiUser]

All Catholic rites are not only open to the public, but published to the world for all to see.

So, when is the last time you participated in slectign a new pope (just an example)

Interesting: I started to search the web for references to LDS rites. I came across several that compared them to Masonic rites

They are similar for the mnasons claim to have gotten their cerimonies from watching the priests while working on the temple in jerusalem, Jospeh smith Got his from God. The discrepancies would be where the masons either heard wrong, or where they lost somehting over the ages, but they would bear at least a superficial resemblance.

There is a little matter of the authority to administer the rites...

[DelphiUser]

If this is turning into a Bill Clinton deposition, it is because you are trying to redefine the word ‘at.’

The word at means what it means, and it is fine, you are trying to redefine at to mean in it does not.

Words mean things.

That is what I said. Smith made a simple mistake.

No, in this case, he did not, he was and is correct.

Why doesn’t your church just fix it like the thousands of other little mistakes that have been fixed in the BOM?

If adding punctuation invalidates the BOM then the Bible was invalid long before the BOM was translated. As for why doesn't the church just fix it...

Let's see, in an alternate reality, the church decides to take revelation from you on this, would that end the controversy? (ROTFLOL) yeah, I thought so, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. He said at, he meant at, at is the correct way to describe it, get over it.

You claim your Prophet was not perfect. Yet you will deny a clear imperfection!

I said I did not claim he was perfect, I did not claim he was imperfect, sheesh!

If this is an example of the accuracy of your reading skills I see why we are having a problem with a written record. I am not denying a "clear imperfection" I am telling you I don't think it's an imperfection, I think It was supposed to be that way (IMHO).

[Elsie]

This is actually very simple, If I come to you in confidence, and say:

"You have to swear to me you not tell any one what I am going to say..." IF you agree, so you can hear what secret I am going to impart, you are bound, or a liar one of the two.

So; once again, for the umpteenth time, "Who asked you?" and WHY did they ask you?

[Elsie]

Sadly with the institution of the Nicene creed (IMHO), the apostasy away from the teachings started by Jesus Christ was complete.

So THERE!!

Quit picking on US and DEFEND yerself!!

--MormonDude

[DelphiUser]

So; once again, for the umpteenth time, "Who asked you?" and WHY did they ask you?

Lets try answering this three separate ways (to add to the many I have already answered.

1.

God, through his officiator (the guy leading the ceremony, if you want the guy's name, get use to disappointment) Asks you. And they ask you because it is a sacred thing and it's part of the ceremony that only those agreeing to keep it sacred can continue with the ceremony.

2.

a) God asks you. b) The ceremony is sacred and those who don't commit to hold it sacred are not allowed to continue, because that is how God wants it.

3.

If I, or God or your sister won't tell you something, and you agree not to tell you are now bound by your word, or you are untrust worthy, period.

If I ask why I or God, or your sister, want some thing kept secret or sacred you have to ask them, I cannot ask you for you have agreed to keep it secret, capisce?

You will now undoubtably say this is not good enough, but really, it is.

God speaks. I for one Obey his word. End of story.

[DelphiUser]

You quote me: Sadly with the institution of the Nicene creed (IMHO), the apostasy away from the teachings started by Jesus Christ was complete.

You add: So THERE!!

You editorialize me: Quit picking on US and DEFEND yerself!!

I stated my opinion, if me having an opinion feels like an attack, then you must feel attacked a lot (I am very opinonated). MarkBsnr stated soem things and quoted some things that I believe to be in error, I illustrated that, then I stated my opinion, hten concluded with some philosophy.

You spell your name wrong: --MormonDude

(that was humor, JFTR)

[Elsie]

1. God, through his officiator (the guy leading the ceremony, if you want the guy's name, get use to disappointment) Asks you.  And they ask you because it is a sacred thing and it's part of the ceremony that only those agreeing to keep it sacred can continue with the ceremony.

2. a) God asks you. b) The ceremony is sacred and those who don't commit to hold it sacred are not allowed to continue, because that is how God wants it.

 

 

Once again, you've AVOIDED answering the WHY you get asked these questions.

 

If GOD really wants you to do this, it should be in your Scriptures.

 

Only ONE question this time:

 

 

 

Why don't you point them out?

 

 

[Elsie]

I stated my opinion, if me having an opinion feels like an attack, then you must feel attacked a lot (I am very opinonated).

I've been hangin' out with you guys so long, that...

[Elsie]

Not a highjack, but just a question.

Tomorrow, we are winding up a weeks worth of VBS; Vacation Bible School.

The wife (and now me, too) was wondering whether Catholics have anything like that.

And I'm wondering if the LDS do as well.

[sevenbak]

The land was know as the land of Judea, not the land of Jeruselem.

To those familliar with it sure, but what about those who came from there and knew nothing of it except that Jerusalem was their former home? We're talkign 500 years after the fact, living in the New World. BTW, there are many many names for that area by the local of the time, not just the land of Judea. Here are a few: Canaan, Divided Kingdom, Eretz Israel, Israel, Judea, Palestine, Pelesheth, Philistia, Samaria, United Kingdom....

[sevenbak]

Mark, besides the references that have been posted, here are a few more that I have found most helpful, and might be somewhat different than the others already posted.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/skeptic/chapter8.htm#Masonic
http://www.xmission.com/%7ecountry/reason/widowson.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2671/ECLDSEn.html

[sevenbak]

I think that you will find seer stones or sacred stones or avenues for God do deal with man throughout the bible, both in scripture and in lore.

The LDS firmly believe in “opposition of all things” which basically means there is a good and evil version of practically everything.

Thus crystal balls (evil) vs. urim and thummum (good)

This is a very good read on sacred stones throughout history.

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=148

[DelphiUser]

Once again, you've AVOIDED answering the WHY you get asked these questions.

I have given you logical, reasonable answers I am to the point that I am going to ask you, since my answers are wrong, what answer were you looking for?

If GOD really wants you to do this, it should be in your Scriptures.

The text of the ceremony is not supposed to be in the scriptures we have now. 2/3 of the Plates delivered by Moron to Joseph smith were sealed because we were not ready for the truth they contain. Why do you think God would print what he has commanded people to keep sacred in scriptures given to everyone?

Only ONE question this time:
Why don't you point them out?

What? The scriptures containing the covenants? Nope, not going there for they are not in the scriptures that would make the command to keep them acred pretty moot don't you think?

Scriptures telling us to go to the temple? I pointed out some from the D&C, you said they did not count.

I have no intention of Showing you a scripture that says we need to covenant with God before going through the temple, for this looks to me like the "God can't make a stone so big he can't move it" argument against God being all powerful.

I have answered your questions as many ways as I can and be truthful, so again, what (in your mind) was the right answer?