Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
NAL; meet DU:
Don't they know we never said a Prophet was infallible?
I agree I feel this way too!!
Will I no longer post on FR after next week?
If some of my in-laws had said ‘ralley’, I would have known they meant ‘really’! ;^)
Constantine’s deal? No such animal. The Church Fathers were left in charge precisely in order to prevent heresies and departures from the faith to occur.
http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/hrefute.htm is a translation from the Italian for a history of major heresies and how the Church dealt with them.
AUTHOR’S PREFACE. (St. Alphonsus M. Liguori)
1. — My object in writing this work is to prove that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true one among so many other Churches, and to show how carefully the Almighty guarded her, and brought her victoriously through all the persecutions of her enemies. Hence, as St. Iraeneus says (Lib. 3, cap. 3, n. 2), all should depend on the Roman Church as on their fountain and head. This is the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and propagated by the Apostles; and although in the commencement persecuted and contradicted by all, as the Jews said to St. Paul in Rome: “For as concerning this sect (thus they called the Church), we know that it is gainsayed every where” (Acts, xxviii, 22); still she always remained firm, not like the other false Churches, which in the beginning numbered many followers, but perished in the end, as we shall see in the course of this history, when we speak of the Arians, Nestorians, Eutychians, and Pelagians; and if any sect still reckons many followers, as the Mahometans, Lutherans, or Calvinists, it is easy to see that they are upheld, not by the love of truth, but either by popular ignorance, or relaxation of morals...
5. — St. Paul says: “There must be heresiees, that they also who are reproved may be made manifest among you” (I. Cor. ii, 19). St. Augustin, explaining this text, says that as fire is necessary to purify silver, and separate it from the dross, so heresies are necessary to prove the good Christians among the bad, and to separate the true from the false doctrine. The pride of the heretics makes them presume that they know the true faith, and that the Catholic Church is in error, but here is the mistake: our reason is not sufficient to tell us the true faith, since the truths of Divine Faith are above reason; we should, therefore, hold by that faith which God has revealed to his Church, and which the Church teaches, which is, as the Apostle says, “the pillar and the ground of truth” (I. Tim. iii, 15). Hence, as St. Iraeneus says, “It is necessary that all should depend on the Roman Church as their head and fountain; all Churches should agree with this Church on account of her priority of principality, for there the traditions delivered by the Apostles have always been preserved” (St. Iraen. lib, 3, c. 3); and by the tradition derived from the Apostles which the Church founded at Rome preserves, and the Faith preserved by the succession of the Bishops, we confound those who through blindness or an evil conscience draw false conclusions (Ibid). “Do you wish to know,” says St. Augustin, “which is the true Church of Christ? Count those priests who, in a regular succession have succeeded St. Peter., who is the Rock, against which the gates of hell will not prevail” (St. Aug. in Ps. contra part Donat.): and the holy Doctor alleges as one of the reasons which detain him in the Catholic Church, the succession of Bishops to the present time in the See of St. Peter” (Epis. fund, c. 4, n. 5); for in truth the uninterrupted succession from the Apostles and disciples is characteristic of the Catholic Church and of no other.
6. — It was the will of the Almighty that the Church in which the true faith was preserved should be one, that all the faithful might profess the one faith, but the devil, St. Cyprian says (2), invented heresies to destroy faith, and divide unity. The enemy has caused mankind to establish many different churches, so that each, following the faith of his own particular one, in opposition to that of others, the true faith might be confused, and as many false faiths formed as there are different churches, or rather different individuals. This is especially the case in England, where we see as many religions as families, and even families themselves divided in faith, each individual following his own. St. Cyprian, then, justly says that God has disposed that the true faith should be preserved in the Roman Church alone, so that there being but one Church there should be but one faith and one doctrine for all the faithful. St. Optatus Milevitanus, writing to Parmenianus, says, also: “You cannot be ignorant that the Episcopal Chair of St. Peter was first placed in the city of Rome, in which one chair unity is observed by all” (St. Opt. l. 2, cont. Parmen.)
(2) St. Cyprian de Unitate Ecclesie
7. — The heretics, too, boast of the unityy of their Churches, but St. Augustin says that it is unity against unity. “What unity,” says the Saint, “can all those churches have which are divided from the Catholic Church, which is the only true one; they are but as so many useless branches cut off from the Vine, the Catholic Church, which is always firmly rooted. This is the One, Holy, True, and Catholic Church, opposing all heresies; it may be opposed, but cannot be conquered. All heresies come forth from it, like useless shoots cut off from the vine, but it still remains firmly rooted in charity, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (St. Aug. lib. 1, de Symbol ad Cath. c. 6). St. Jerom says that the very fact of the heretics forming a Church apart from the Roman Church, is a proof, of itself, that they are followers of error, and disciples of the devil, described by the Apostle, as “giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils” (I. Tim iv. 1).
8. — The Lutherans and Calvinists say, jusst as the Donatists did before them, that the Catholic Church preserved the true faith down to a certain period – some say to the third, some to the fourth, some to the fifth century – but that after that the true doctrine was corrupted, and the spouse of Christ became an adulteress. This supposition, however, refutes itself; for, granting that them Roman Catholic Church was the Church first founded by Christ, it could never fail, for our Saviour himself promised that the gates of hell never should prevail against it: “I say unto you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. xviii, 18). It being certain, then, that the Roman Catholic Church was the true one, as Gerard, one of the first ministers of Luther, admits (Gerard de Eccles. cap. 11, sec. 6) it to have been for the first five hundred years, and to have preserved the Apostolic doctrine during that period, it follows that it must always have remained so, for the spouse of Christ as St. Cyprian says, could never become an adulteress.
9. — The heretics, however, who, instead oof learning from the Church the dogmas they should believe, wish to teach her false and perverse dogmas of their own, say that they have the Scriptures on their side, which are the fountain of truth, not considering, as a learned author (3) justly remarks, that it is not by reading, but by understanding, them, that the truth can be found. Heretics of every sort avail themselves of the Scriptures to prove their errors, but we should not interpret the Scripture according to our own private opinions, which frequently lead us astray, but according to the teaching of the Holy Church which is appointed the Mistress of true doctrine, and to whom God has manifested the true sense of the Divine books. This is the Church, as the Apostle tells us, which has been appointed the pillar and the ground of truth: “that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and the ground of truth” (I. Tim. iii, 15.) Hence St. Leo says that the Catholic faith despises the errors of heretics barking against the Church, who deceived by the vanity of worldly wisdom, have departed from the truth of the Gospel — (St. Leo, Ser. 8, de Nat Dim.)...
(Arius) then began to promulgate the following blasphemies:— 1. That the Word was not from all eternity, but was brought forth out of nothing by the Father, and created, the same as one of ourselves; and, 2ndly, that Christ, according to his free will, was of a mutable nature, and that he might have followed vice, but that, as he embraced goodness, God, as a reward for his good works, made him a participator in the divine nature, and honoured him with the title of the Word, the Son, and of Wisdom (6).
Without the guidance of the Magisterium, we see various heresies recycled over time, given new names, and new twists and presented to the world as truth. Without the guidance of the Magisterium, we in fact do see that, as you indicate, that it IS possible to look at things this way or that, that Scripture alone can be interpreted a number of different ways, and that we have thousands of different interpretations from one (or two really) set of Scripture.
All Catholic rites are not only open to the public, but published to the world for all to see.
Interesting: I started to search the web for references to LDS rites. I came across several that compared them to Masonic rites. Since I am not LDS nor have I ever been in an LDS ceremony, I cannot stand as expert, however, as a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, I have been through the Masonic rites and have to say that the websites are right on. Do you or any other LDS member have commentary on the similarities and the extent of these purported drastic oaths taken?
The land was know as the land of Judea, not the land of Jeruselem.
Words mean things.
Smith made a simple mistake. Why doesn’t your church just fix it like the thousands of other little mistakes that have been fixed in the BOM?
You claim your Prophet was not perfect. Yet you will deny a clear imperfection!
Here you go.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml#det
I must add one comment. The LDS religion puts a huge emphasis on personal revelation. Everything must not be spoon fed to us and there is a huge premium to figure out things when we work with God by ourselves. It is my feeling that explaining everything to someone ruins that. There are many elements which are theological lessons which are more powerful if a person figures it out on his/her own.
Regarding Mormonism Apologists' incessant defense of Smith's frauds: "...truth is loved in such a way that those who love some other thing want it to be the truth, and, precisely because they do not wish to be deceived, are unwilling to be convinced that they are deceived." -- St. Augustine
I know that sacred things are made light of these days, nothing is sacred anymore. However, I would never post anything on the Internet or here if it was sacred to someone else’s beliefs.
(You forgot to double-dog-dare ‘em to read it! ;^)
Thank you. I have been on Jeff Lindsay’s site before in specific context and he certainly writes in volumes.
However; he does little to address the specifics and really soft soaps the whole deal. I was thinking more along the actual words of oath themselves. Some of them appear almost plagiarized from the EA, FC and MM degrees. Going back to the grips, signs, handshakes and passwords for the degrees, as well as the rather drastic oaths, I was struck by how almost identical some of them are.
I left Freemasonry after I was informed of its incompatibility with Catholicism, however, I remember the circumstances. If the rites posted and alleged to be the LDS rites are that identical to the Masonic rites, I have to really wonder about their intent. We Catholics have absolutely nothing along those lines in any of our religious rites - and certainly nothing secret - and I would wonder about their validity in terms of Christianity.
Now, if they applied to, say, the Thuggees, or other violent religious group, that’d be one thing.
Thank you again for this link.
It is somewhat enlightening to see that it leans heavily on the Gnostic and other heretical thought, interspersed with Mormon writings. Thererfore, I’d have to take this with a grain of salt, even if it weren’t a little on the vague side, which it most certainly is.
Also, there is a huge difference between grasping someone’s hand and using grips.
I don’t know if it comes across, but I generally have high regard for the LDS members that I have know personally. They normally have high standards for personal conduct and appear morally very good.
With my understanding of their theology, and now that I have done some research on the seeing stones (as recommended on a similar thread), and now with my understanding of grips, passwords, oaths and the 5 Points of Fellowship (which I have received), I do question very strongly the relationship of these to what most Christians regard as, well, Christianity.
Further explanation: I have received these as a Freemason, not as a Latter Day Saint. Hopefully, there is no confusion. Sorry.
It's evident.
Most posters on FR who have problems with the LDS organizations output, have no problems with the MEMBERS of that organization.
Oh, there are some words bandied about sometimes when sensibilities (on either side) get ruffled, but, in the main, I'd say that folks on EITHER side would stick up for the others in a fight!
Thank you for the links.
They are helping put the similarities between the two rites into context. Do I understand correctly that the 5 Points of Fellowship and the blood oaths have been discontinued since 1990?
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