Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
In my case, the leaving produced the shunning. The attitude of the shunners produced the ugliness in their hearts toward one who dared refuse to accept the lies of Joseph Smith.
AND, since anyone who leaves the church is accused of all kinds of things, I remarried without a temple divorce, in the time before the LDS church was SUED to allow resignations. Therefore, I was excommunicated. Had I been able to, I would have resigned.
When Lucifer left the fold to do his own thing is he not an out cast to the Heavenly Father an enemy?
Joseph Smith is NOT Heavenly Father, and the comparison of me to Lucifer is indicative of the the kind of mentality that produces shunning.
Is this the kind of message mormons would have their missionaries carry to the contacts they make? "Don't dare to leave once you are in, or you are considered Lucifers?"
I always find it strange that the church that proselytizes against other religions probably more heavily than most, tries the hardest to censor those who would question their doctrines.
"But if they started a champaign against the church sure I would shun them and find them a stranger which it came to Church things!"
Shunning makes people strangers not only to "church" things, it affects all the relationships one has. "Shunning is the act of deliberately avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from an individual or group. It is a sanction against association often associated with religious groups and other tightly-knit organisations and communities." Wikipedia
**** the “shunning” of former members.****
A mormon friend of mine has been separated from his wife for like three years. She left him, the mormon church and turned her back on most of their children. He tells me, she tells him, she is often shunned by mormons including him. He says “I don’t understand? I disagree with her choices, but shun her? No. I don’t get it.” He speaks respectfully of her even though she is “gone”.
I figure she is the one doing the shunning, and transferring her feelings as motive to others to justify her feelings. I say this because before she left him she would voice negative words regarding ex and anti mormons.
So I then think, is there a correlation between those that participate in shunning then, at a later time, leaving beliefs behind? Does this apply to more than just mormons and mormonism? If so, then the act of shunning does something deep and fundamental to a person.
I pray for both of their souls.
I really hope you are not suggesting this of me?
Look what happens when you turn away from your computer to actually take care of business.
I had some catching up to do on the thread.
Mormons don’t want to admit that shunning takes place, but it is documented by almost every single person who has ever left. There are strained family, community and business ties.
I was an inactive Mormon for over twenty years. I was publicly shunned in Relief Society. In fact the Relief Society President stood up and told the members that they shouldm’t listen to my opinions about raising children since I hadn’t been recently active. This was after I had RAISED four wonderful children through their teen years....I had only briefly stated that some of the mothers needn’t be too concerned by the rebelliousness of dress of their teenagers when they don’t dress in the standard “Mormon attire.”
One mother was frightened and appalled that her teenage daughter would leave the house dressed modestly, yet mom dropped by the school to check up on her, and daughter had on “extreme makeup” and had rolled her skirt up at the waistband. I was only trying to reassure the mother that if you raise your children well, with proper morals, they very often grow out of their “experimenting with fashion stage.”
Sheesh....by the way they acted I may as well have said I thought it was okay if the daughter chose to be a whore. I couldn’t believe they had publicly shunned me in that way, when I was just trying one more time, to be a Mormon. That was the last time I attended or tried to attend as a member. That was in 1995. Since then I have been anathema in my Ward.
**** that the church encourages divorce when one of the spouses leaves the Mormon church.****
My mormon friend says they have been separated for nearly three years. She’s the one that left the mormon church and the one that wants the divorce but does little to follow through. He has tried to resolve issues gone to counseling but she refuses resolve or go to counseling. She now lives with another man. (So their kid tell me.)
***I really hope you are not suggesting this of me?***
I was speaking of some one I personally know something about. Just trying piece together some reason for her actions.
I know nearly nothing about you. You’ll have figure out your motivations for yourself.
I asked a simple question...are you suggesting I did the shunning? My motivations have nothing to do with it. Yours on the other hand would be questionable if you are suggesting it.
Well, no. Just what is in the Docrine and Covenants. There is also a passage in Alma that can be interpreted in a couple of ways. I am on my way out the door, I will ask and let you know. Thx.
Unfortunately the rites have been posted on the Internet by others. We keep going over the same ground, they are sacred to us and we won’t post them on lds.org or anywhere else and we don’t talk about them outside the temple.
No, the LDS church does not encourage divorce when one spouse leaves the church. We are told that the marriage covenant is sacred and to be honored. I know several couples where one has left the church, or one has joined another church. The LDS members are still faithful, and have good marriages. OTOH, I have a couple of friends whose husbands have told them after 20 years of marriage that they just didn't believe in the Church anymore and hadn't ever believed in it. Both friends stayed with their husbands, but after 2-3 years, both husbands asked for divorces (due to infidelity.)
A neighbor of my parents had a wife who got very psychotic and had dementia. She tried to kill him and one of their children. She was committed to the state mental hospital, where she asked for a divorce. After several years, he met a wonderful woman who was a Baptist. They fell in love and got married. She is an active, faithful member of her Baptist Church and he is and active, faithful member of my parents ward. Their one child has been raised as a Baptist. They have a wonderful marriage and support each other in their churches. He is invited to their socials and she is invited to the neighborhood parties and the ward activities.
So, no, the official stance of the LDS church is not to encourage divorce under any condition, except where there is abuse involved.
Mormons often exhibit a common type of denial. Blame the one who left. Blame them for a lack of faith, blame them because they must be weak, blame them because they must have taken an offense at some small slight.
Those who leave are always blamed. Here is what they are saying right now over on the exmormon chat board.
Subject: The “C” (cult) word is what pushed me out the door.
Date: Jul 13 18:33
Author: julecakes
Mail Address:
Then I was watching program on cable about Heaven’s Gate cult and there was a guy who was a “cult expert” that had written a book that sounded interesting. I went to his website and he listed the top ten cults and the mormons were on there. I was a bit surprised, so I researched the description of a cult, and yep, TSCC fit the profile. The biggest one was not letting the members leave. Even decent people are “programed” to do everything they can to not let anyone leave. It’s just wrong.
Subject: Cult Word was a hard pill to swallow
Date: Jul 13 18:41
Author: sfex
Mail Address:
Subject: The first time I referred to the church as a cult
Date: Jul 13 18:47
Author: en passant
Mail Address:
UCC has a reputation as being a church with somewhat of liberal outlook, and this particular congregation was really diverse with people from a variety of different backgrounds.
One evening at choir practice some of us were chatting about how we came to associate ourselves with this particular congregation. I stated matter-of-factly, “I grew up in a cult.” This was nothing I had formed a conscious conclusion about, and I think at the time it surprised me as much as it surprised the others.
Of course I had to explain, but I think its greater significance was in the way I blurted it out without thinking. Somehow in my discontent with my morg background it seemed like my brain figured it out and labeled it without deliberation.
That’s silly of course, and the comment no doubt was a product of my subconscious deliberation process, factoring into consideration a number of elements whether I was fully aware of it or not. I’ve thought about it many times since then and it always amuses me at how accurate the comment turned out to be.
Subject: I used the “c” word when my sister left for college
Date: Jul 13 18:56
Author: SkyChild
Mail Address:
Subject: Re: A note on the ‘c’ word . . . (a little long)
Date: Jul 13 19:12
Author: Julie
Mail Address:
But I am afraid to tell people that I was “raised in a cult” because I’m worried the people I tell will turn out to be those misguided uninformed souls who believe that the church is like any other mainstream Christian faith. They may look at me like I’m looney, say “that church isn’t a cult!” or worse say “hey, how can you say that, my sister’s family is mormon and theyre perfectly nice normal people...”
As for how to deal with it, the only thing I’ve found works is distancing myself. The people left inside generally don’t change, no matter what you say to them. Sometimes people come out of their own accord, and THEN you can get together and compare notes and support each other. But until then...it is rather non-productive to try to deconvert anyone, and often has the opposite effect of making them cling even tighter to the cult they’re so mentally/emotionally dependent on.
Sad stuff, really. You can only live your life, be polite and non-combative, hope that they eventually have their own epiphanies and come to join you out in the fresh air.
I wanted to ping you to Post 1131. There are so many sad experiences of those who leave the LDS. It might do you some good to familiarize yourself with what other may actually experience instead of just listening to the faith promoting stories they tell you in Church.
Look around....it really can’t hurt can it?
I fine you to be an exaggerator the Church nor LDS consider the Prophet Joseph Smith to be Heavenly Father.
To make a statement like this tells me you have sure are confused about the doctrine.
and the comparison of me to Lucifer is indicative of the the kind of mentality that produces shunning.
How did you get yourself incorporated in the middle of an illistration?
I been taught if you do the will of the Father and keep the faith that all will work out!
We are commanded to Love One Another.
I have recognized some souls are more advance on this road than others but many are still working with the Lord to mature in the Lord's spirit.
So unless one is behaving beyond civility there is no reason to shun, but when they are civil again one should be teated cordial.
So are you implying that the one ex-mormon is indicative of all ex-Mormons? Because using your logic, I once heard of a Mormon who took the inside door handles of his Volkswagen Bug. He used it as a torture chamber where he murdered young girls leaving bitemarks in their flesh...
...Oh and he was good looking.
Sheesh.
Obviously you didn’t read the post.........
And I heard his initials were.....Oh, no one’s ever heard of him anyway.
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