Posted on 06/05/2007 10:53:58 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
Okay, he answered it and if you care to respond, it’s all yours. My grandkids are on the phone.
That argument is tiresome!
Catholics are Christian, Mormons are not.
Would you say that most of your church practices are extrascripitual? See you are taking the word of the church ON FAITH ALONE and without any assurance or confirmation that what you are doing is even ok with God let alone blessed by Him
Later this evening, I will gather my children, we will light candles and kneel before this big white ceramic statue of Mary and say the Hail Mary fifty three times, sometimes in latin, since we all know how Satan hates that language.
Satan hates the name of Christ. He does not mind latin or prayers and candles before a statue , because all of that keeps you from worshipping the only one worthy of worship. In fact satan loves your prayer time
I will be doing something that many a great Catholic saint has done, and following the advice of several popes, as well as the Blessed Virgin herself at Lourdes and Fatima. My church has deemed the rosary as high quality devotion, even setting aside a Sunday to celebrate it. That's good enough for me.
Can you know with assurance that Fatima and Lourdes were not demonic manifestations? Where do you find that God has used the physically deceased to communicate with men?
I know your church loves the rosary, but how do you know God does? Do you seek to please God or men?
There is John 21:25.
But back to Timothy. Profitable is not the same as solely sufficient. Paul is only saying what a great aid scripture is, but in no way is he defining sola scriptura.
That is not exactly what the scripture says tiki
Lets look at it
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
You are defining the word saint as Saint . In scripture ( the time of the revelation) the word saint had only one application and that was to the believers in the living church.. The greek here is hagios or "holy one" not canonized people that have died and gone to heaven . The elect, the believers in the NT are called saints.
Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints (.hagios )
Those are OUR prayers that the angels are offering up to God . You have to read scripture through scripture.God chose greek for the NT because it is the most precise language.If John meant something other than the living saints he would have said so
They are only omnipresent to the extent that they are with God and He is omnipresent. No one is like God. And no Catholic who knows their faith would say or imply that the saints have any supernatural power outside of God's power.
If they are not omnipresent, how do they hear all the prayers of all the people all over the world praying at one time ?
Amen
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio; contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium. Imperat illi Deus; supplices deprecamur: tuque, Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute in infernum detrude. Amen
This is the perfect verse for this discussion.
In our service on Sunday morning we use cards in the pew backs for folks to use to make requests for prayer. It is nothing more than a tool.
Imagine, though, that someone began to think that the card itself was sanctified. Imagine cards with gold edging, and people with decks of cards, and little pouches on belts for holding the cards, and rules about how to lay the cards out.....
And then they begin to teach the cards, and the doctrine of cards...
No way you are a grandparent..
LOL Is that to scare the devil away?
How does an angel get to be a saint anyway? A Saint is one that has lived a Christian life and been obedient to Gods law. How does an angel "fit' into that ?
The Bible tells us the angels have to watch us to learn about God, so it is hard to fantom how an angel , that does not have the indwelling Holy Spirt or that was not saved by the cross could be a 'saint" .Do you have any scripture on that frank
I think we have to watch for signs (like a great victory in battle or a healing that was asked for on one of the cards) to prove the value of the cards before we build up too much card doctrine.
No, the wine and the bread are consecrated in separate vessels. In the past, Catholics took Communion under only one “species” - that is, form - that of bread. After VatII, it became more common to offer the chalice as well.
Protestants don’t believe that any real change occurs in the bread and wine, and regard the whole event as symbolic.
I was once in a Protestant church, many, many years ago, when I was a child, and I saw the little tiny cups of grape juice and the racks that were installed on the backs of the pews to hold them - and I was really dumbfounded!
On the other hand, Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Catholics give Communion under two species, that is, both the bread and the wine, mixing them together and using a little spoon to give Communion to the faithful.
So there are many different ways that this can be done. But the important thing is what you and your church believe happens at the consecration of the bread and wine. Is it symbol, or is it a transformation?
*Cough!* I can't wait for the Scripture on that one.
“for the most part Catholics and Protestants now acknowledge each other as fellow Christians, are often fairly relaxed about attending each other’s worship services”
I went to a Catholic Mass once. Everything seemed to be in a foreign language. I understood nothing and grew quite bored. I decided to check out a few Protestant services and finally settled in with a conservative Baptist Church.
All that being said, I think that Catholics are some of the nicest people I’ve ever met and I don’t believe they are any more or less bound for hell than anyone else.
No, actually, it’s not. Maybe you should find out what Catholics (and some Protestants) really believe about this. What do you believe about it, btw?
Thanks, friend! I’m glad your personal experience was a good one.
By the way, I’m with Fred too!
F
You could put a bunch of the sacred prayer cards on a chain and then chant the sacred prayer card Prayer over and over again as you work your way through the chain.
Now if we could just come up with a good chant for the sacred card chain, we could start a new sacred tradition.
How's this:
Sacred Card Chain Edged with Gold Lamination is with thee Bessed are thou among paper goods And blessed is the fruit Of thy paper tree, Aspen
That was Latin, "Padre de Español."
*Snicker*
No worries, he said all the right things.
No. I would say that most of our church practices are scriptural. 90% +.
See you are taking the word of the church ON FAITH ALONE and without any assurance or confirmation that what you are doing is even ok with God let alone blessed by Him.
I believe I have told you before how reason plays its role, how history plays a role, how tradition plays a role, how scripture plays a role.....but if one believes that the RCC is the Church that Christ founded then the Holy Spirit has a role as well, so it is ok with God.
Satan hates the name of Christ. He does not mind latin or prayers and candles before a statue , because all of that keeps you from worshipping the only one worthy of worship. In fact satan loves your prayer time
My mention of latin was in reference to another recent thread about Satan hating latin. It was meant in humor. Christ is the subject of the rosary. It is entirely Christocentric. I have referred you to " Rosarium Virginus Mariae ". The great pope explains everything about the rosary one could want to know, and in terms I think you would appreciate, but I suppose one needs ears to hear. Satan hates my rosary.
Can you know with assurance that Fatima and Lourdes were not demonic manifestations? Where do you find that God has used the physically deceased to communicate with men?
Yes, because Fatima and Lourdes draw people to Christ. Mary "magnifies the greatness of the Lord." One does not see her without seeing the Incarnation. Off the top of my head the transfiguration demonstrates the physically deceased communicating with men.
I know your church loves the rosary, but how do you know God does? Do you seek to please God or men?
I think that God is pleased that we honor His mother in the way that we do. That she continues to play an important role in our faith-life, just as He graced her with such an important role in His revelation.
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