Posted on 05/07/2007 8:58:18 AM PDT by NYer
Patty Patrick Bonds Conversion
I was born and raised a Baptist. As a Baptist I enjoyed a close, intimate walk with God. I read His Word and I obeyed Him and He was everything to me. I was willing to follow Him anywhere and serve Him in any capacity. I never dreamed He would lead me far from my upbringing and to a place I would have never chosen to go.
I believed that any Catholic who had genuine faith in Christ and respected the Bible as the Word of God would follow Christ out of the Catholic Church. I honestly believed there were only a few misled Christians in the Catholic Church.
One day I came across the writings of St. Patrick of Ireland. I was looking for historical evidence of his existence, but never dreamed I would discover God’s will for my life. What I found in the writings of St. Patrick was evidence of deep devotion to Christ and a spiritual intimacy with Christ that I knew right away was true Christianity. He was my brother. Yet he was also a Catholic Bishop. This birthed in me a desire to understand Church history and when and where the Catholic Church had gone wrong (since my assumption from childhood was that the Catholic Church was apostate).
(See the Catholic Encyclopedia article on St. Patrick of Ireland )
For the next several months I read the writings of those men who had learned the Christian faith from the very mouth of Christ and the Apostles. I began to familiarize myself with the culture and time of the Apostles and realized that Christianity in its earliest days was not Bible centered (indeed most of the NT was not written yet and later was not available for the masses) but Tradition centered. I learned that when the early Christians went to Church their services were not sermon centered but centered around the Eucharist, the Lord’s Supper, which was not seen as a symbol but as the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. It was guarded and protected as such. Not a crumb was to be lost nor a drop spilt. I was shocked to find that the early Church did not even resemble my own Baptist church.
This led to many more months of earnest study of the Catholic faith. What I discovered is that everything I had been taught about the Catholic Church as a Baptist had been erroneous. Every objection that I had been engrained with since childhood was a falsehood about the Catholic Church and was easily refuted by an honest look at Church history.
By coming to an understanding of the time and culture and beliefs of the Early Church, my Bible began to read very differently. I realized that no document, even the inspired Word of God, can interpret itself. No one comes to Scripture without a grid through which they interpret it. My grid had always been very Protestant and very anti-sacramental. But after investigating the Early Church, I could clearly see that the Bible was a Catholic book; written by Catholics, for Catholics, canonized by the Bishops of the Catholic Church and preserved for Catholics for millennia to come.
I also discovered that I was one of many Christians devoted to Christ and willing to follow Him anywhere even at great personal loss that were reversing the mistakes of the Reformation and flocking back home to the One Church Christ established on this earth. I discovered through a series of books called, Surprised by Truth, that I was one of many that were headed home to Rome. (My story has been included in the third edition if you would like to learn more).
May God grant you the openness to see Him in His Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Praying that your mind may be opened to the Catholic faith.
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What is she talking about here? The Bible? What other Apostolic writings are there? Does she consider St. Patrick an Apostle???
I began to familiarize myself with the culture and time of the Apostles and realized that Christianity in its earliest days was not Bible centered (indeed most of the NT was not written yet and later was not available for the masses) but Tradition centered.
Every worship of every early Christian, then as well as today, was and should be centered on the word of God. Her history is as weak as her theology.
I learned that when the early Christians went to Church their services were not sermon centered but centered around the Eucharist, the Lord's Supper, which was not seen as a symbol but as the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
None of this is true. The preaching of the word of God was and is always the centerpiece of all worship...
"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." -- Luke 4:4
And most certainly the Apostles themselves did not believe they were actually eating the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ because He was sitting alive alongside them as He instructed them to partake of the Lord's Supper -- "do this in remembrance of me."
Pity she has so much confusion in her life.
One day all those who love Him and are loved by Him will be gathered together. I have all hope that we'll bump shoulders. 8~)
You wrote: “What is she talking about here? The Bible? What other Apostolic writings are there? Does she consider St. Patrick an Apostle???”
LEARN TO READ. She wrote: “For the next several months I read the writings of those men who had learned the Christian faith from the very mouth of Christ and the Apostles.”
Notice the word “from”? She’s not saying the Apostles. She’s saying FROM the Apostles. The earliest Church Fathers, like Ignatius, learned from the Apostles.
You wrote: “None of this is true. The preaching of the word of God was and is always the centerpiece of all worship...”
Incorrect. Paul in 1 Cor. 11 shows otherwise.
Also, don’t forget Acts:
Acts 2:42
They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
Acts 20:11
When he had gone back up and had broken the bread and eaten, he talked with them a long while until daybreak, and then left.
Acts 27:35
Having said this, he took bread and gave thanks to God in the presence of all, and he broke it and began to eat.
“Pity she has so much confusion in her life.”
She doesn’t. She is no longer a Protestant.
They all learned the words of Christ from the Holy Scriptures, written and spoken, just like you and I learn.
The boasting just gets bigger and bigger.
What authority do you have to tell other Christians how they "should" worship?
-A8
And what do you think the Apostles taught while they were having dinner?
The Bible contains all authority.
There was a time not so long ago you told me not to post to you. I assume since you just posted to me you're not bound by your earlier pronouncement.
You wrote: “None of the early church fathers “learned the Christian faith from the very mouth of Christ.”
Maybe not, but that wasn’t your original point of complaint. This was: “What is she talking about here? The Bible? What other Apostolic writings are there? Does she consider St. Patrick an Apostle???”
“They all learned the words of Christ from the Holy Scriptures, written and spoken, just like you and I learn.”
No, not just like you and I learn it. I learn it just as the early Church fathers did - within the Church. You don’t. You have appointed yourself your own church in essence. Also, you just said something akin to what Patty Bonds said. Do you really mean to say that Jesus’ words “from the Holy Scripture,” are both written and spoken? How can words from holy scripture be spoken when the very idea of “scriptures” means they were “written” and not just spoken. I think your minor mental lapse is akin to Bond’s.
“The boasting just gets bigger and bigger.”
Who’s boasting? Yours or Bond’s? If she is boasting, then you must be too. Maybe she just mispoke, made a mistake - just like you just did.
You wrote: “And what do you think the Apostles taught while they were having dinner?”
Proper table manners, of course!
When actually celebrating the Eucharist I think they also taught the word of God - not much of which had been written down yet, of course. Hence, it is called the Apostles’ teaching.
"Most certainly"? He's God ... he can most certainly cause the Apostles to actually partake of his flesh and blood as he sits there beside them at the Last Supper. And, in fact, that's precisely what he said he did.
And witness to this is borne both by the plain words of Scripture and by the words of, e.g., Ignatius of Antioch, who did learn his faith personally from the Apostles.
Perhaps the problem is with the ears.
You wrote: “LOL. While I realize you’d really like to find some “mistake” in my post, there isn’t one.”
Actually, I would be more than happy to find no errors in your posts, but then you would no longer be posting what you believe in as a Protestant.
“Perhaps the problem is with the ears.”
Since my ears can’t see, that isn’t the problem. Nope. The problem is your error. Again, you wrote: “They all learned the words of Christ from the Holy Scriptures, written and spoken, just like you and I learn.”
Now, there is no way the words of Christ FROM THE HOLY SCRIPTURES could be anything but written since they are SCRIPTURE. We can say that we repeat Christ’s words as found in scripture, but if they are FROM scripture then they are written. Again, your error is similar to Bond’s. That’s okay. She seems like a wonderful Christian woman. I don’t think she’s bad company to have.
If the Bible interprets itself, then why are you presuming to speak for it? If the Bible does not interpret itself, then whose interpretation is authoritative?
There was a time not so long ago you told me not to post to you.
Not as I can recall. I remember making that request to another person, but not to you. Feel free to post to me if you wish.
-A8
"Do this in remembrance of me."
No wizardly incantation, no magical elevation in height, transmogrifies the bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ.
Christ is, however, present spiritually during the Lord's Supper, as He told us He would be.
- St. Ignatius of Antioch (107 AD)
... not limited to what you quoted. Sorry, you don't get to create doctrine by taking one sentence and ignoring 50 or 60 others.
This is my body ... This is the blood of the new covenant, which will be shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.
I am the bread of life. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
Therefore, anyone who eats the bread or drinks the cup unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
Those are all in my Bible. I'm sorry they seem to have been stricken from yours. Even Martin Luther would tell you how wrong you are on this one.
... “It is better not to even speak of such men.”
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