Many people assume that the Ten Commandments and the covenant God established with ancient Israel are identical—and that both were abolished by Jesus Christ's death.
HUH?!?!? What The ...
Posted on 04/21/2007 6:18:02 AM PDT by DouglasKC
Many people assume that the Ten Commandments and the covenant God established with ancient Israel are identical—and that both were abolished by Jesus Christ's death. They believe that the Sinai Covenant and God's commandments came into existence together and went out of existence together.
But is such reasoning biblical? The facts show it is not. A close look at the Scriptures reveals that breaking the Ten Commandments was a sin before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, so arguments that they came into existence with that covenant and were terminated with it cannot be true. Let's notice the scriptural proof.
God's Word defines sin as "the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV) or "lawlessness" (New King James Version, NIV). Therefore, "where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15). This is what the Bible clearly says! So do we find transgressions of the Ten Commandments described as sinful before Mt. Sinai? Clearly we do.
For example, Genesis 13:13 tells us that "the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the Lord." Since sin is violating God's law, the people of Sodom could not have been punished for being wicked and sinful if no law condemned what they were doing. We must conclude, therefore, that God had already made available the knowledge of what is sinful.
Here is a clear example. Genesis 20:3-9 and 39:7-9 describe adultery as "a great sin" and a "sin against God." Adultery breaks the Seventh Commandment.
In Genesis 3:6 and 17, God punishes Adam and Eve for their coveting and stealing—breaking the Tenth and Eighth Commandments. They also dishonored Him as their parent, violating the Fifth Commandment.
In Genesis 4:9-12, God punishes Cain for murder and lying—violations of the Sixth and Ninth Commandments.
In Exodus 16:4, several days to several weeks before God established His covenant with the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, we find God giving them a test to see "whether they will walk in My law or not." His test involved whether they would rest on the seventh-day Sabbath as He commanded in the Fourth Commandment of that law—with which they were at least partly familiar. The seventh day had been hallowed—set aside as holy by God—from the time of Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:1-3).
God's reaction to their disobedience is revealing. He exclaims, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?" (Exodus 16: 28). God clearly speaks of both His "commandments and . . . laws" as already existing and in force well before He listed the Ten Commandments verbally at Mt. Sinai, as described four chapters later! Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.
This is stated explicitly in Genesis 26:5, where God tells Isaac that He blessed his father Abraham "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." This event took place centuries before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, centuries before Moses and two generations before Judah, head of the tribe that much later would become known as the Jews, was born! (Be sure to read "Did Abraham Keep the Same Commandments God Gave to Moses?" on page 13).
In Leviticus 18:21 and 27, God calls the idolatrous practices of the people of the land of Canaan "abominations"—actions so filthy and degrading that God compared their expulsion to being "vomited out" of the land (verse 28). What was their sin? Among other things, idolatry (the worship of false gods) and human sacrifice, which violated the First, Second and Sixth Commandments.
The Bible shows that the Ten Commandments did not originate with Moses or in his time. Nor were they in any way limited only to the Jews. They were in effect and known long before Moses or a people known as the Jews existed. They are the foundation of God's laws that show us how to love God (defined by the first four Commandments) and how to love our fellow man (defined by the last six).
This is why, after Jesus Christ returns to establish His glorious Kingdom on earth, Isaiah 2:3 tells us that "many people shall come and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."
At that time, all of mankind will at last be taught to live according to all of God's laws and commandments!
Great reading that may challenge your perceptions.
Oh, really? Who?
Quite a few. Stick around this thread long enough and you'll probably see some popping up.
Oh, really? Who?
Quite a few. Stick around this thread long enough and you'll probably see some popping up.
The phrase, "I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" goes right over their heads, huh?
Many people assume that the Ten Commandments and the covenant God established with ancient Israel are identical—and that both were abolished by Jesus Christ's death.
HUH?!?!? What The ...
I’ve never seen or heard anyone suggesting that the Ten Commandments were abolished.
Maybe I just don’t get out enough.
I can see how some would see it this way but that would be a matter of knowledge of WHY Christ HAD to die.
One thing people really do not consider, is Christ died more for his enemies, than his friends.
Interesting point.
To be fair, it's usually brought up in the context of the sabbath commandment. If one believes that the ten commandments are not abolished, then one has to believe that the sabbath commandment is still in force for Christians today.
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Then perhaps the author should have been honest about his personal focus, rather than waving a straw man about.
I'm just saying ...
Just a study note regarding the different meanings of Rom 4:15 and 1stJohn 3:4 english translation of the word “transgression” from the Greek.
The transgression referred to in 1st john 3:4 is a different Greek word referring to an iniquity or unrighteousness, a transgression of the law, HANOMIA.
(1Jn 3:4) Whosoever3956 committeth4160 sin266 transgresseth also the law:4160, 2532, 458 for2532 sin266 is2076 the3588 transgression of the law.458
pas o poion ten hamartian kai ten anomian poiei kai e hamartia estin e anomia
The passage in Romans refers to a breaking or violation of law, PARABASIS
(Rom 4:15) Because1063 the3588 law3551 worketh2716 wrath:3709 for1063 where3757 no3756 law3551 is,2076 there is no3761 transgression.3847
o gar nomos orgen katergazetai ou gar ouk/de estin nomos oude parabasis
The author makes a logical error in his argument by identifying the two words to argue his conclusion, ie. its invalid. This doesn;t mean his statements aren’t true, merely that the argument isn’t sound.
Is this a Scripture debate, or archaeological/historical debate thread?
Quite a few pre-Jewish religions had equivalents and parallel teachings, most influential to Judeo-Christian philosophy being the Zoroastrian Asha Vahishta.
But that might not be along the lines you wanted to have this thread follow.
I don't think it's a strawman. There are others who believe we only have to obey the ten commandments because they are mentioned in the new testament. The reasoning is that if they're not mentioned, then God's voicing the ten commandments in Exodus are invalidated.
Both if you want.
Quite a few pre-Jewish religions had equivalents and parallel teachings, most influential to Judeo-Christian philosophy being the Zoroastrian Asha Vahishta. But that might not be along the lines you wanted to have this thread follow.
I'm of the opinion that God's commandments were not totally unknown before Sinai. It's very likely that other cultures and societies were aware of them and tried to follow them to the best of their ability.
Thank you for your input. I don't think the authors point was to prove that the two greek words were equivalent. Rather, his point was to show that God certainly does have laws and that there are numerous ways in which we can violate them.
The author has apparently never heard of Natural Law.
Can you sum up your viewpoint on just what natural law is?
Great movie...and he has given me these 15...oops...these 10 commandments!
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