Why I Am Not A Preterist

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/preterist.html ^ | John Stevenson

[xzins]

WHY I AM NOT A PRETERIST

The word "preterist" is taken from the Latin word meaning "past." This view denies any future fulfillment of the book of Revelation and sees the events it describes as already having been fulfilled within the first century after Christ.

There are several different forms of Preterism. Full Preterism views all of the prophecies of the Bible as having already been fulfilled in their entirety since the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Full Preterism is a very recent innovation that has no adherents in any of the writings of the early church.

Partial Preterism maintains a future return of Christ, but views His "coming in the clouds" as described in Matthew 24:29-31 as having been fulfilled in A.D. 70 with the fall of Jerusalem.

1. Jesus and Preterism.

With regards to Preterism, I am reminded of the words of Jesus when He said to the disciples, "The days shall come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them. For just as the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day." (Luke 17:22-24).

It seems to me that the Preterist is one who is pointing to the A.D. 70 event and saying, "Look there! Look here!" But there is going to be no mistaking the coming of the Son of Man when He finally returns. By contrast, none of the believers of the early church viewed the 70 A.D. fall of Jerusalem as fulfilling the promise of the return of Christ. This brings us to our next point.

2. The Church Fathers and Preterism.

It is clear from a reading of the apostolic and church fathers that ALL of them expected a future return of Jesus Christ. It would be strange indeed if the entire church failed to understand the fulfillment of so many of the New Testament prophecies on such a major point. This is especially striking when we remember the promise of Revelation 1:7 that tells us, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. A preterist interpretation calls for this to be a reference to the "tribes of the land" of Israel, even though Israel was never described in such a way elsewhere in the Bible. But such an interpretation would demand that the Jews who suffered through the A.D. 70 event would have recognized that their sufferings were a punishment for their treatment of Jesus since the prophecy is not merely that they would mourn, but that they would mourn "over Him." Just as there is no evidence that anyone in the church ever recognized the fall of Jerusalem as the return of Jesus, so also there is a complete absence of evidence that the Jews ever recognized the coming of Jesus in those events.

3. The Resurrection and Preterism.

Fundamental to full Preterism is the idea that there is no future physical resurrection of the dead. But the pattern for our resurrection is that of Jesus. The big idea presented in 1 Corinthians 15 is that Jesus arose from the dead. This was not merely some sort of spiritual resurrection. The point is made throughout this chapter that His resurrection was bodily and physical. Furthermore we are told that His resurrection serves as the paradigm for our own resurrection. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep (1 Corinthians 15:20). He is the firstfruits and we are the "later fruits."

When Paul came to Athens, he was mocked by the Greeks for believing in a physical resurrection. Such mockery would not have been forthcoming had he held that the resurrection was only going to be of a spiritual or mystical nature. But he went out of his way to side himself with the Pharisees who believed in a physical resurrection of the dead (Acts 23:6-8).

In denying any future resurrection at the coming of Christ, the preterist also finds himself out of accord with the words of Paul when he says, "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51). The reference to sleep is used throughout this epistle as a euphemism for death (11:30; 15:6; 15:18; 15:20). While Paul says of the coming of the Lord that it will be a time when all do not die, the preterist is left with the rather obvious historic truth that everyone who lived in the first century did indeed die.

When it comes to the resurrection, the Bible teaches that Jesus is our prototype. His resurrection is the forerunner and the pattern for our own resurrection. This point is made in 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul says that if there is no resurrection then even Jesus has not risen.

The resurrection of Jesus was a physical resurrection. He was able to stand before His disciples in His resurrection body and say, "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39). 1 John 3:2 says that when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. Therefore we can conclude that our future resurrection will be of a physical AND spiritual nature.

4. Preterism and the Lord's Supper.

One wonders whether the Full Preterist is completely consistent in his views. After all, most Full Preterists continue to partake of the Lord's Supper in spite of the fact that Paul said that the eating and drinking serves to "proclaim the Lord's death UNTIL HE COMES" (1 Corinthians 11:26).

5. Preterism and the Promise of a Soon Coming.

Preterists like to point out that Jesus and the disciples stated that the kingdom was near and at hand. What they often ignore is that this same formula was used in the Old Testament in instances where the eventual fulfillment was a long way off.

An example of this is seen in Isaiah 13:6 where, speaking of a coming judgment against the city of Babylon, the prophet says, "Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty." Isaiah writes these words in the 8th century B.C. but it is not until 539 B.C. that Babylon fell to the Persians.

The preterist attempts to make a similar case via the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:34 where Jesus says, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." What is conveniently ignored is the earlier context of Jesus' words in the previous chapter.

"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

35 that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation." (Matthew 23:34-36).

Notice that it was "this generation" that murdered Zechariah, the son of Berechiah." The problem is that this murder took place 400 years earlier as recorded in 2 Chronicles 24:20-21. This tells us that Matthew's use of the term "generation" means something different than a mere life span of the people who were living at that time.

6. Preterism and the Angels at the Ascension.

Another problem facing the preterist is seen in the promise that was given to the disciples at the ascension of Jesus. The event took place on the Mount of Olives.

And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was departing, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them; 11 and they also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:9-11).

The promise that was given by the angels is that Jesus would come again in exactly the same way as they had watched Him go into heaven. This had not been a spiritual ascension, but a physical and visible one. It is for this reason that Christians throughout the ages fully expect a future physical and visible return of Christ.

7. Preterism and the Judgment of the World.

When Paul preaches to the Athenians on the Areopagus, he declares to them that God has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed (Acts 17:31). The Preterist interpretation of this verse is that it points to the A.D. 70 fall of Jerusalem, yet that fall would have absolutely no impact upon the Athenians who had gathered to listen to Paul. He says that they ought to repent because of this coming judgment and such a warning is nonsensical if it only refers to a local judgment in a far away land.

There are some eschatological differences that exist between Christians that I consider to be relatively benign and within the realm of Christian orthodoxy. This is not one of them. To the contrary, the teaching of Preterism comes uncomfortably close to the spiritual gangrene that is described by Paul in 2 Timothy 2:18 when he speaks of those who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some. I have yet to meet a Preterist whose focus is upon church ministry or the spreading of the gospel or the building up of the church. To the contrary, those with whom I have thus far come into contact seem to have as their primary focus the spread of this particular teaching. I cannot help but to be reminded of the litmus test suggested by Jesus: You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit (Matthew 7:16-17).

  

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[xzins]

After graduating with a Bachelors Degree in Theology from Florida Bible College, John went on to receive his Masters of Divinity from Knox Theological Seminary and later did post graduate studies at Reformed Theological Seminary. Having worked for 29 years in the Fire-Resue arena, John retired in January 2007 at the rank of Battalion Chief in the Broward Sheriff's Division of Fire-Rescue. As an ordained pastor in the Presbyterian Church in America, John has taught at Miami International Seminary, at the Boca Campus of Reformed Theological Seminary, at the South Florida Bible College and overseas at the Moldova Bible Seminary in Eastern Europe. Now he has been called to a new work as the President of Redeemer Bible College.

[xzins]

This Reformed pastor (PCA) with a solid reformed scholastic background clearly disagrees with preterism.

Peter, of course, wrote his letter near 65AD. Five years away from the preterist parousia, Peter did not even hint at the soon return of Jesus.

Actually, the opposite. Peter said,

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

[irishtenor]

Good stuff. Thanks.

[xzins]

You’re welcome.

[Frumanchu]

I have yet to meet a Preterist whose focus is upon church ministry or the spreading of the gospel or the building up of the church. To the contrary, those with whom I have thus far come into contact seem to have as their primary focus the spread of this particular teaching.

Typical hit piece. John ought to pay a little more attention to people within his own church (PCA) as there are several partial preterists therein (particularly R.C. Sproul) who ARE focused on church ministry, spreading the gospel and building up the church, and spend relatively little time on eschatology.

[Frumanchu]

Not to mention the fact that the author plays the guilt-by-association game with partial preterists. Every partial preterist I know would without reservation reject full preterism as heresy specifically because of some of the above points (particularly the denial of a future bodily resurrection).

[Matchett-PI]

Exactly.

bttt

[topcat54]

Oh, goody, a new thread.

This Reformed pastor (PCA) with a solid reformed scholastic background clearly disagrees with preterism.

True, but the fact is he is ordained in a denomination with many orthodox preterists (RC Sproul, a documented preterist, is also PCA) and the matter has never been an issue to my knowledge, certainly not at the General Assembly level.

He would have a hard time making his personal views stick within the PCA, which, at least at this point, understands Reformed theology better than you.

BTW, the PCA is also a denomination that regularly denies ordination to dispensationalists like yourself because of your biblically inconsistent views.

You're clearly fishing in uncharted waters.

Run out of Bible answers?

[topcat54]

As long as we are quoting outside sources:

Preterism is a hermeneutic method used to interpret eschatological (end-times) passages in both the Old an the New Testaments. The orthodox preterist view sees nearly all events (excluding the Second Advent [emph. added]) described in the book of Revelation and the 24th chapter of Matthew as already having been fulfilled by A.D. 70. The preterist position may be held by those who hold to the amillennial, postmillennial, or the historic premillennial positions on the Second Coming of Christ.

***

CRI considers the preterist position to be within the pale of orthodox Christianity [emph. added], since it affirms all of the essential eschatological doctrines of the historic Christian faith, which includes:

The Bodily Return of our Lord Jesus Christ in Glory for His Church The Bodily Resurrection of Believers & Unbelievers
The Universal Judgment of the Living and the Dead
The Reception of Eternal Life for the Elect, and the Allotment of Eternal Condemnation for Unbelievers The Eternality of Christ's Righteous Kingdom
A vital distinction needs to be made, however, between the preterist and "hyper-preterist" [emph. added] views pertaining to eschatology. While preterists do assert that the majority of biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled, "hyper-preterists" go so far as to insist that even the Second Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ and the resurrection has already occurred. This position is no part of the historic, orthodox, Christian faith .(emphasis added)

-- Taken from a CRI letter dated May 19, 1999 authored by CRI representative Thad Williams

[xzins]

Among other things, preterism’s acceptance of a bodily resurrection is questioned.

[topcat54]

Among other things, preterism’s acceptance of a bodily resurrection is questioned.

Questioned by whom? You? You can't even define your terms.

[xzins]

See point 3 above.

If you can read.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks for that great and informative site, Matchett-Pi. We should post some of those essays as threads. This one caught my eye...

ANGELS WE HAVE HEARD ON HIGH
The Location of Christ's Reign
Dee Dee Warren

I am a fully recovered former premillennial, pretribulational, futurist. It is now amazing to me how easily I see the wealth of passages that utterly defeat those earlier much-cherished eschatological doctrines. That being said, I do not believe for a second that other people hold them because they are unintelligent and do not love the Word of God because I once zealously held them myself….. but I do remember that once I started taking a look at certain passages without the grid I was so carefully taught, the scaffolding just fell away. Now while I didn't receive the particular insight that I am now going to share in those earlier days, I am hoping that this may be used to open the eyes of others to consider the possibility that the idea that Jesus is going to return to set up a thousand year Kingdom and rule from a physical throne in physical Jerusalem is simply not Biblical...

[topcat54]

If you can read.

Careful, or the R-M might slap you hand.

Since the author equivocates on the definition of "preterism" that he himself offers, the question is against whom does the charge apply?

Certainly not the "partial preterist" by his own statement, "Fundamental to full Preterism is the idea that there is no future physical resurrection of the dead".

And he makes it clear that it is only the "full preterist" variety that is not orthodox.

So the question becomes, "where's the beef?"

BTW, this is a very poor article for the president of a bible college to be authoring. Clearly the PCA does not have its best and brightest out front on this matter. But why should they, since preterism in the orthodox variety is not an issue for the PCA. Sounds more like a hobby horse for this fellow.

Specious statements such as, "I have yet to meet a Preterist whose focus is upon church ministry or the spreading of the gospel ..." is just plain silly, until the author has polled the entire universe of preterists and objectively documented their convictions in this area.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Preterism and partial or orthodox preterism are worlds apart.

Either this author doesn't know that or he's purposely trying to confuse the discussion.

Imagine that. (Now I know how blue-duncan felt when he said something about dispensationalism mucking up historic premillennialism.)

Christ reigns today from the right hand of God the Father. Otherwise, the resurrection itself is relegated to just another moment in history when, if fact, it is the pinnacle by and for and through which everything was created.

"And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent" -- Matthew 27:51

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Specious statements such as, "I have yet to meet a Preterist whose focus is upon church ministry or the spreading of the gospel ..." is just plain silly

Not only silly, but off by 180 degrees since most orthodox (partial) preterists are postmillennial and believe that the Great Commission must and will be fulfilled by the God-ordained spread of the Gospel and all the confidence and glory with which it comes.

[xzins]

He clearly said, “I have yet to meet....”

Reading, reading,.....

[xzins]

And here I thought he said, “I have yet to meet...”

[xzins]

The reject only the name “full preterist.” They modify the doctrine to be a secret, invisible coming of Christ in 70AD.

Find me one apostle or one early Christian who says that Christ returned in 70 AD.

Just one.

You’d think such a thing would’ve caused a stir.

So far as the author’s observation about preterists and evangelism, he is clearly referring to their tendency to proclaim “preterism” rather than the gospel.

[topcat54]

Hardly helpful. He could very well have meant, “I have yet to meet a Preterist.”