Posted on 04/02/2007 8:40:21 AM PDT by topcat54
Conclusion
Although the pretribulation rapture theory is very popular today, given arguments that are offered in support of this doctrine we must declare Pretribulationalism to be contrary to the clear teachings of Scripture. Simply put, there is not one shred of evidence that can be found in the Bible to support the pretribulation rapture. The typical Pretribulational arguments offered reveal a pattern: of imposing one’s presuppositions onto a text without any exegetical justification whatsoever; of finding subtle meaning between words and/or phrases that were never intended by the author; of spiritualizing or ignoring passages that contradict the Pretribulational paradigm; and, of imposing Pretribulationalism upon passages that actually teach the unity of the eschatological complex (i.e., the rapture, second coming, general resurrection, and general judgment all occur on the same day—the day of the Lord). It is our hope and prayer that professing Christians would cast off this escapist fantasy and return to the task of personal sanctification and godly dominion.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformedonline.com ...
“It truly will be a time so horrible such as has never been seen NOR EVER WILL BE SEEN AGAIN. “
You’re Premil?
If you don’t believe the dispensational perspective to be Scriptural, then don’t follow it.
Their perspective is based upon intense Scriptural study, but your fellowship with God is independent of any other. let Him guide you appropriately at His pace.
BTW, no matter what the cursing, if one is remaining in fellowship with Him, there is a blessing. This works two ways. We are to be wary as a serpent, of impending evil, but we also are to remain obedient to legitimate authority.
We are to bare our own cross, but above all remain in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ.
1stCor 6:14; 15:1-58
James also reiterates to believers to have patience as they definitely believed the Rapture would occur earlier. James 5:7-8.
What is important here is that patience is a system of concentration, of thinking Bible doctrine.
There is no unfulfilled prophecy before the rapture could occur, then or now.
The entire audience of James and the Corinthians did not get slaughtered in 70AD.
Neither the Rapture, nor the millenium have been ushered into reality as of yet.
The Rapture is immenent, not immediate. No prophecy must occur prior to the Rapture, but prophetic events must still occur prior to the 2nd Advent.
Outstanding points.
In Titus 2:13, “Waiting with keen anticipation for that blessed hope (the Rapture) even the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”,...we wait with patience, by continually thinking Bible doctrine in our stream of consciousness.
sic transit gloria mundi
The leaning I have in the Spirit is that the abomination which causes desolation has not yet happened.
Do you believe (loosely speaking) the Church will “Christianize” the world to before Christ’s return?
I.E. leading up to Christ’s return the world will get better (or more Christian) etc?
Guess which of these two verses is actually from the Bible:
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
OR
He who guesses wrong about whether the rapture is before or after or during the great tribulation shall burn in hell fire--and should have heeded the superior arguments of the other guy on FR.
Luke CH 17 v 26 tells when. Note as in the days of Noah. Not during or after the Tribulation. GOD called out Noah BEFORE Judgment happened.
26“When the Son of Man returns, the world will be like the people were in Noah’s day. 27In those days before the flood, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came to destroy them all. 28“And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building—29until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the hour when the Son of Man returns.£
This, as your other beliefs, are simply that, beliefs with no scriptural foundation. Dispensationalist schemes aren't scripture.
When Christ calls forth the Church into the heavens he is not physically stand on the earth.
The Bible states in
1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descent from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Ch 5 1I really don’t need to write to you about how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters.£ 2For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. 3When people are saying, “All is well; everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall upon them as suddenly as a woman’s birth pains begin when her child is about to be born. And there will be no escape. 4But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief. 5For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night. 6So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be sober. 7Night is the time for sleep and the time when people get drunk. 8But let us who live in the light think clearly, protected by the body armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation. 9For God decided to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. 10He died for us so that we can live with him forever, whether we are dead or alive at the time of his return. 11So encourage each other and build each other up, just as you are already doing.
Yeah, it does matter. The Chinese Christians who believed they'd be delivered from the Communists stayed behind and got slaughtered. Those who took seriously the warning of Jesus that they should take off when they see the trouble coming escaped. If you think the alternative to getting scooped out of time in a cosmic rapture to escape trouble is to be protected from any harm during the trouble is to ignore scripture. This isn't the lesson of Revelation or of Hebrews or of many, many believers throughout the past several thousand years since Abraham received his call to follow God to a land he would show him.
And my words follow that of ons who claimed GOD would save them from the kings furnace of fire.
Daniel ch 3 16Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego replied, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you. 17If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God whom we serve is able to save us. He will rescue us from your power, Your Majesty. 18But even if he doesn’t, Your Majesty can be sure that we will never serve your gods or worship the gold statue you have set up.”
And this Proverbs ch 3 5Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. 6Seek his will in all you do, and he will direct your paths.
Even if I am wrong that doesn't mean GOD will not protect me. FAITH! Otherwise I think you put a meaning to my words that I did not say.
The Chinese Christians who believed they'd be delivered from the Communists stayed behind and got slaughtered. Those who took seriously the warning of Jesus that they should take off when they see the trouble coming escaped.
Who are you to be their judge? By that matter we could say the same for Paul, Peter, and the Apostles and Disciples. But wait! GOD does not tell us we will not face persecution from non believers while on this earth for His sake. No, indeed he tells us many will indeed face it. The missionaries of China one like a heir to the Borden foods fortune headed to China to preach but he died before reaching there. Ones like Bob Pierce who although survived risk their lives for decades going into China after the Christian purge to teach the Gospel.
A point to be made. The early believers were not obeying GOD's word no not even the chosen who walked with Christ. They were told to go to all nations and preach the Gospel. What did they do instead? They stayed home and lived amongst themselves actually. What happened? They came under great persecution and some were killed. When Stephen was stoned to death who was that man holding the killers coats? The Christians were scattered so the word could be preached just as persecution in China has made Christianity grow within that nation. You want to make somebody want something more than anything? Take it away from them and watch then yearn for it. Christ told his followers they would suffer for his sake. Only one by tradition was spared a violent death under persecution and died likely of old age. Even John saw some persecution by being jailed though.
Thanks. I wish I had the studying capabilities I had about 12 years ago. I did a lot of studying most of it in a small window of time allowed for me to do so. I know it and I understand it. Trying to keep the thought from mind to keyboard without it leaving my processing is a treasured commodity for me now. At times even saying the Lords Prayer and keeping my concentration is a difficult task. Yet recently I was led down a path a literal one where I can walk {literally} and manage to keep my mind on it. A quiet walk along a river bank suffices.
So if you see spelling wrong or what looks like incomplete thoughts or sentence structure that is what happened. Those kind of errors are very difficult for me to find.
And thanks for the passage reference as well.
yes
Not according to the standard dispensational "gap theory" interpretation of Daniel’s prophecy (Dan 10:24-27). The fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple take place in the time period of the 69th week. The “abomination of desolation” does not take place until after the temple is restored and in the middle of the next time period, the 70th week.
There, fixed it for you.
Well, you’re just full of assertions aren’t you?
I’m curious. Looking at your profile, how do you reconcile political pessimism with an Amillenial eschatology? If Jesus is ruling and reigning now in a direct and tangible way in the world, shouldn’t you be an optimist?
I'm in trouble then...I haven't visited anyone in prison...
That about sums it up...
You seem to have a better handle on Daniel’s prophecy (Dan 9:24-27).Perhaps you can explain Daniel’s 69th and 70th week chronology and why he says in the middle of the 70th week, after the city and temple are destroyed in the 69th week, the sacrifices will cease and the abomination will be set up.
PTL.
THANKS THANKS.
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