Posted on 04/01/2007 8:16:52 AM PDT by AlaninSA
Yes, of course (many of us) do. Do all protestants study the Bible?
Do you have bible studies?
Yes. It is a component of our religious education for the youth (in our parish, the kids start reading scriptures early on and have to bring a Bible with them to their religious education classes in the 4th grade).
In addition, our men's group, women's group, and young adult ministries all have scripture studies on a weekly basis.
Our Lenten parish mission this year concentrated on the parable of the prodigal son, this year (yes, from scripture). In addition, we do a scripturally-based Stations of the Cross.
An integral part of our worship service (Holy Mass) each week are scripture readings. There are three readings each Sunday and Holy Day. The first is from the Old Testament. The second is from the epistles. The third is from the Gospels. In addition, a psalm is sung each week, as well. On weekday Masses, there is a reading (generally from the OT, but can be from the Book of Acts), a psalm, and a Gospel reading. If you'd like to see the readings done each weekday and Sunday, you can check them out here. Click on any day to see the readings for that day.
Additionally, there is a prayer devotion done called the Liturgy of the Hours. This prayer devotion can be done either in choir (a group) or individually. The devotion consists of extensive readings from the psalms and other poetic books of the Old Testament, readings from the remainder of scripture, and Gospel readings. The readings are divided up into a Morning prayer, an Evening Prayer, along with shorter prayers for mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and nighttime (before a person retires). There is also a rather extensive devotion that is part of this, called the Office of Readings...which has far more extensive selections. If you'd like to see what goes on with that, you can see the Universalis site.
I've seen estimated that a person participating in Daily Mass, Sunday Mass, and doing the Liturgy of the Hours will go through approximately 75% of the Bible during any given three-year liturgical cycle.
I know for me the scriptures are what make me change my behavior and thoughts.
Yes, it is very important to form one's conscience. Sacred Scripture provides a very important basis upon which that formation should occur.
Of all the catholics I know, which is alot of people, I can only think of 1 who actually read and studied the bible. It was my neighbor. I know my friends and relatives who are catholic say that the bible must be interperted by a priest and they never read it.
While it is true that scriptures must be interpreted in light of the Magesterium of the Church, it isn't true that a priest must be the one who interprets it. In fact, it is entirely possible that a given priest may be completely wrong in how he interprets scripture. After all, heretical movements, such as Liberation Theology, were started by priests. Look at it: Martin Luther (who, by Catholic terms, could hardly be considered a reliable exegete) was a priest.
Consider this: there are, at least (to my knowledge), five major branches of protestantism. Calvinists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Anabaptists, and Charismatics. Each of these groups has fundamental differences one with another. There are other groups that are considered heretical even by the majority of these groups that consider the source of their beliefs to be based upon revealed scripture (such as Jehovah's Witnesses). The vast majority of these groups consider themselves to be Bible-based and relying solely upon scripture. If that is the case, why in the world would there be fundamental differences in opinion between these groups?
I say the above, not to slam any of those groups, but to illustrate why it is important to have a guide for the understanding of the scriptures. The Magesterium, simply, is the historic teaching of the Church, as documented by the Fathers, the Councils, and as interpreted by the Holy Father and the bishops in union with him.
There are over a billion Catholics in the world. Sadly, the majority of those Catholics are in the third world, are poorly educated, if educated at all, and are, at best, functionally illiterate. Up until a hundred years ago, that condition of education and literacy would apply all over the world, including in this country. Most people in the world even today live hard lives and do not have hours and hours to devote to the study of theology or to extensive study of scripture, even if they had the education to do so. Even the availability of books to the common man was nonexistant up until the past couple of hundred years. The moveable type printing press was not around for the first 1-1/2 thousand years of the Catholic Church's existance. The historic reality of that condition for over 2,000 years has resulted in the need to develop liturgy and devotions that can be memorized and performed by rote, without regard to the person's ability to read and write. The stained glass on church windows was created to act as a picture catechism to teach people the story of salvation. The Rosary was created as a tool to allow meditation on critical events in salvation history: the birth, death, and resurrection of Our Lord. The 150 beads represent the 150 psalms.
Interpretation of scripture is a tough thing that requires a lot of work and should not be done solely by reading a single version of the Bible (particularly, imho, the KJV).
For example, this passage in 1 John 5 is confusing to many:
1Jo 5:7 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Do you realize that the Stephens Text is the only critical text that has the above? The remainder of them read as follows:
1 Jo 5:8 (RSV) There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.
(Most split verse 6 (KJV) up to have part of that verse 6 as verse 7)
So which is right? If you give ANY answer, it is your opinion. Is there a theological problem with using the KJV rendition? Is there a theological problem with using the RSV rendition? Again, YOUR opinion or MY opinion. Which is the Word of God?
The point is not to get into an argument about the above, but to point out that it DOES take some education to properly study the scriptures. Education which most do not have.
The attitude displayed by the majority of your Catholic friends is not atypical. Frankly, if you don't have the time to engage into a serious study, it is probably best not to engage in serious discussion about the subject. Should they read the scriptures? Absolutely. Should they engage in the practice of interpreting scripture independently? Unless and until they take the time to truly understand them, probably not. As St. Peter said:
2Pe 3:15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,2Pe 3:16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
I'll refrain from mentioning the name of the Catholic poster who posted the below quotes, but the irony is too rich not to at least list some of them here...
1/23: Brace thyself for the attacks of snake handlers, calvinists, "non-denoms" and others...
1/24: If you're upset that I called out the cults for what they are...sorry...but it's still an accurate depiction of the non-denoms, mormons, calvinists and other wacky cults.
2/5: Mormons...the cult that's become commonplace...so hard-up for membership that they have to resort to attempted spiritual kidnapping of the dead...
2/13: Fact is, John Calvin was an unintelligent, perverse fraud who founded a cult known as "calvinism."
The Episcopal "Church" was started by an English king who could not get the Pope to accept the king's immoral ways.
Luther was a disaffected, likely egomaniacal priest.
Protestantism is a breakoff of mainstream Christianity that seeks to glorify the pastor more than the Lord.
Presby's are some of the laziest "Christians" out there...as are all of their predestination cousins. 2/14: Would the calvinist cult members like some damnation with their heresy?
2/15: As for your post, you're also off base and reciting a continual lie of the snake handlers, calvinists and "pastor" worship folks at the Church of the Almighty Dollar.
2/21: Hey...I'm not surprised by anything the snake-handling crowd does. Their "churches" are simply shrines to the "pastors" - no theological foundation...
3/1: Why is this listed as a Catholic interest article? Why not Calvinists? They're the ones who practice the witchcraft.
3/2: You'll note that it's "Calvin" College. Again, I ask why are the activities at a cult center in the midwest relevant to Catholics? 3/4: I tell ya, this "reverend" ... is nothing more than an uneducated bumpkin. Wonder how much money he's skimming from the ship of fools attending his "church..."
3/4: You'd be stunned by how quickly these snake handlers degrade into profanity, anger and threats.
3/4: Again, a demonstration of a protestant being ignorant...
3/4: Let's have a little fun with that wackiest of prot sects, the Baptists
3/5: Being a protestant is in itself a demonstration of ignorance...
3/6: The pentacostals, "church of God" and others are simply inventions of men...designed to pump the ego and line the pockets of the "pastors." But continue donating...I'm sure your pastor is happy in his new Benz...
3/7: Martin Luther, being a relatively lazy type, deleted a good chunk of the Bible?
A British king, attempting to justify his own heresy and immorality, heavily edited a version to suit his own twisted lifestyle?
3/7: Yes, if you're a born again, declared protty, then you're clear to do whatever you wish..."date" male hookers, cheat on your spouse, defraud donors of money intended for religious purposes...not that any protestant "ministers" did that or anything...
3/9: Perhaps things are different at your church - one of the, what, million protestant sects? However, the snake handling pentacostal calvinist wannabeatelevangelist "churches" here typically only use snippets.
3/14: Hell, most "Protestant" "churches" in my area are simply shrines to the ego (and pocketbook) of the "pastor."
3/28: Luther was a self-absorbed idiot...and his followers are fools...a complete bunch of utter fools.
3/28: Perhaps I'll just convert to that calvinist cult I've heard so much about.
3/31: That's the real origin of the Anglican church - born of sin and a king's ego.
What a collection of loving collection of quotes!
I'm so sorry. I do understand your feelings.
I do usually check FR daily, so it is no problem for me to do so.
I know that was the REAL reason for this thread.
Thanks for taking care of us Knight-freepers.
...About the rest of this...
Can we get on with conservatism? I find some common cause with Baptists and other protestants. Thats enough to carry out my part of my work that God entrusts to all men.
If we really think Abortion is murder, can we work on ending that scourge and not argue about who is more pleasing to Christ? If we think its essential to defeat men who want to kill us and enslave our families, do we need to argue about who memorized the Bible better? When it comes down to is, salvation is up to God, and His mercy, not up to the person on earth who prints a better tract.
We can look at each other as Americans and conservatives, even though we are serious Catholic or serious evangelicals, and know we have more in common than say semi-Catholics like Nancy Pelosi.
We all fall short, we all sin, we all have to struggle. The devil confuses us so we fight and argue, and ignore the greater evil among us. Lets fight for the common good together.
Must be me :>)
Must be me :>)
Doh! The dreaded double post.
Defensor Fidei es, Marcus.
I was a young child the first time I was told that I am going to Hell, because I wasn't a Catholic. Makes me wonder what those good Catholic kids were being taught.
The Catholic bashers are just jealous losers!
Could also be that they've been confronted by too many poor witnesses for your Church. Join us in looking down our noses at the rest of y'all ain't exactly a great selling point.
The 'Why no one should be a Catholic' thread is telling. The article, the posts, the mere existence of the thread is an insult-- though I was very impressed with many of the Catholic responses. And maybe those responses have turned some hearts and had an impact. But...
How long would a thread titled 'Why no one should be a FReeper' or 'Why no one should be a conservative' last before the Viking kitties electrified it?
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75
110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76
111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77
The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78
1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79
2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).
3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God's plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".85
3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:
"It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books.90 This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.91
The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi.
The New Testament: the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the Acts of the Apostles, the Letters of St. Paul to the Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, the Letter to the Hebrews, the Letters of James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2 and 3 John, and Jude, and Revelation (the Apocalypse).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1809409/posts?page=92
Post #67 is an embarrassment to Free Republic.
Interpretation of scripture is a tough thing that requires a lot of work and should not be done solely by reading a single version of the Bible (particularly, imho, the KJV).
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thank you for your response. I do agree with you on the above statement. But let me share with you what I do and why I asked this question.
Here is an example, both my sister in laws, my best friend, and around 20 close family members, have gone to the catholic church their entire life. None of them, and I mean 100%, know "anything" about the bible.
Basic bible stories they have heard and can kinda receit. But they don't know how they apply to them, the deeper meaning. Why are they written in Gods word. Isn't God's word suppose to be used for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness? 2 Timothy 3:16.
They also think that there is more than one way to heaven. They think it is wrong to say Christianity is the only way, when even Jesus himself said I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. He didn't say i am ONE of the ways. They think it is rude to claim that what you beleive in is right. I am baffeled by this. If you truly believe it, then you must think it is right, or why believe in it?
It's not like I walk around town telling everyone to the face, if they don't believe in Jesus then they are going to hell. However, I do speak the truth, in love, when the Holy Spirit lays the opportunity to do so before me. And many times this takes boldness. Are some offended? you bet. But that is not for me to worry about. Most others, are kind and engage in a conversation about what they believe. Just this Easter I have invited 2 families (who don't go to church) to come with us. They have accepted. I don't put the hard press on them, I have invited 1 family for over 8 years and this is the year the Lord has moved in their hearts to go. So you see it isn't me, it is God who does his work through me.
I started praying about this and during our normal everyday discussions they spout things that are so contradictory to what the bible teaches. I questioned whether they ever read the bible. I asked them and they all said no. Sure they go to church every single weekend and they attend catechism, and their children go to catholic school, but they don't read the bible at all throughout the week. They are on a shelf filled with dust. These are women in their 40's and they have never been motivated to read the scripture on their own. I find that amazing, because they are professed Christians. This is just 3 close friends/family members of mine. I have over 50 cousins and many of them are catholics, and they are exactly the same way. That is why I asked the question in the first place. I really just wanted to know.
They say there is no way I can study the bible on my own and know exactly what God wants us to learn from this. I couldn't disagree more.
Here is how I study. I first pray and ask God to reveal who he is in the scripture. Then I read what I am studying, or scripture about a particular problem I am having. I meditate on it throughout the day. I do read from several translations. I look up words in the Greek and Hebrew form of the word. Many times my understanding of the word, could of had a different meaning during the time of writing. I understand the context, who is writing the book and to whom, why? As much of that as possible. I read other's opinions and writings on the verse or verses. (with the internet you can find thousands, of course some are totally off base. I read from sources I have learned to be reliable) and then I pray about this scripture and I try to live my life by the teachings. Many times it is polar opposite of what the "world" teaches.
Most of my friends, who are Christians, study the bible just like this.In all the Christian churches I have attended, (which is 4) they have encouraged us to have a personal relationship with Jesus and to read his word everyday to be changed by it. Although I find Sunday Morning sermons, motivating and inspiring, I don't "study" scripture during this time. I hear it (which is part of the overall process) but then I do what I mentioned above to allow God to convict me of sin and help in changing my behavior.
When you know why you believe in what you believe in, it makes it possible to live with joy, despite the circumstances. The material surroundings become not important.
Thank you for writing me back. I do appreciate the conversation. It is good to know that you hear scripture, and that you offer bible studies. I just pray that my friends and family would actually go to one.
I will give you an honest answer. It sounds like you read too much Jack Chick. Catholics compiled the Bible into the form you read today.
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Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about? I read and study the Holy Bible in KJ, NIV, NLT, NRKJ versions. What is Jack Chick?
I know the bible from beginning to end. I lead a bible study group.
The Catholic Church is the one that put the Bible together at the Council of Nicea and other councils. We decided what books and letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit and which ones were going to be in the bible. It is a fact of history.
I know the bible from beginning to end. I lead a bible study group.
The Catholic Church is the one that put the Bible together at the Council of Nicea and other councils. We decided what books and letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit and which ones were going to be in the bible. It is a fact of history.
The Muslims are about to put us all to the sword and the Fundamentalist's have nothing better to do than to bash Catholics all day.
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