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To: markomalley

Interpretation of scripture is a tough thing that requires a lot of work and should not be done solely by reading a single version of the Bible (particularly, imho, the KJV).
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thank you for your response. I do agree with you on the above statement. But let me share with you what I do and why I asked this question.

Here is an example, both my sister in laws, my best friend, and around 20 close family members, have gone to the catholic church their entire life. None of them, and I mean 100%, know "anything" about the bible.
Basic bible stories they have heard and can kinda receit. But they don't know how they apply to them, the deeper meaning. Why are they written in Gods word. Isn't God's word suppose to be used for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness? 2 Timothy 3:16.

They also think that there is more than one way to heaven. They think it is wrong to say Christianity is the only way, when even Jesus himself said I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. He didn't say i am ONE of the ways. They think it is rude to claim that what you beleive in is right. I am baffeled by this. If you truly believe it, then you must think it is right, or why believe in it?

It's not like I walk around town telling everyone to the face, if they don't believe in Jesus then they are going to hell. However, I do speak the truth, in love, when the Holy Spirit lays the opportunity to do so before me. And many times this takes boldness. Are some offended? you bet. But that is not for me to worry about. Most others, are kind and engage in a conversation about what they believe. Just this Easter I have invited 2 families (who don't go to church) to come with us. They have accepted. I don't put the hard press on them, I have invited 1 family for over 8 years and this is the year the Lord has moved in their hearts to go. So you see it isn't me, it is God who does his work through me.

I started praying about this and during our normal everyday discussions they spout things that are so contradictory to what the bible teaches. I questioned whether they ever read the bible. I asked them and they all said no. Sure they go to church every single weekend and they attend catechism, and their children go to catholic school, but they don't read the bible at all throughout the week. They are on a shelf filled with dust. These are women in their 40's and they have never been motivated to read the scripture on their own. I find that amazing, because they are professed Christians. This is just 3 close friends/family members of mine. I have over 50 cousins and many of them are catholics, and they are exactly the same way. That is why I asked the question in the first place. I really just wanted to know.

They say there is no way I can study the bible on my own and know exactly what God wants us to learn from this. I couldn't disagree more.

Here is how I study. I first pray and ask God to reveal who he is in the scripture. Then I read what I am studying, or scripture about a particular problem I am having. I meditate on it throughout the day. I do read from several translations. I look up words in the Greek and Hebrew form of the word. Many times my understanding of the word, could of had a different meaning during the time of writing. I understand the context, who is writing the book and to whom, why? As much of that as possible. I read other's opinions and writings on the verse or verses. (with the internet you can find thousands, of course some are totally off base. I read from sources I have learned to be reliable) and then I pray about this scripture and I try to live my life by the teachings. Many times it is polar opposite of what the "world" teaches.

Most of my friends, who are Christians, study the bible just like this.In all the Christian churches I have attended, (which is 4) they have encouraged us to have a personal relationship with Jesus and to read his word everyday to be changed by it. Although I find Sunday Morning sermons, motivating and inspiring, I don't "study" scripture during this time. I hear it (which is part of the overall process) but then I do what I mentioned above to allow God to convict me of sin and help in changing my behavior.

When you know why you believe in what you believe in, it makes it possible to live with joy, despite the circumstances. The material surroundings become not important.

Thank you for writing me back. I do appreciate the conversation. It is good to know that you hear scripture, and that you offer bible studies. I just pray that my friends and family would actually go to one.


75 posted on 04/02/2007 10:02:18 AM PDT by CANBFORGIVEN (! Corinthians 2:14)
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To: CANBFORGIVEN
Sure they go to church every single weekend and they attend catechism, and their children go to catholic school, but they don't read the bible at all throughout the week.

I call shenanigans. An adult doesn't "attend" Catechism. I wonder about your story.

They have to read the bible if they attend a Catholic Mass.

If someone is illiterate, does that mean they are damned because they can't read the Bible? Most of pre-Renaissance Europe was quite illiterate. This is why in Catholicism you see the stained glass windows, statuary, the order of Mass, and other devotional that instructed the people of God without reading.
79 posted on 04/02/2007 10:43:14 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: CANBFORGIVEN
Here is an example, both my sister in laws, my best friend, and around 20 close family members, have gone to the catholic church their entire life. None of them, and I mean 100%, know "anything" about the bible. Basic bible stories they have heard and can kinda receit. But they don't know how they apply to them, the deeper meaning.

I understand what you mean. Unfortunately, you will find that with a majority of Catholics you see. Frankly, I see that with the majority of Christians I see (regardless of where they attend worship services).

A trait of the apostolic churches (Latin and Eastern) is that a large amount of emphasis is placed on sacramental grace and on worship/ adoration of God, vice on scripture study. People enter the church through the sacrament of baptism and charismation/ confirmation. They are spiritually fed from the reading of scripture (during the liturgy) and through the Bread of Life (the sacrament of the Eucharist). They are healed through the sacrament of reconcilliation and through the sacrament of annointing of the sick. Their lifelong vocation is imparted through the sacrament of matrimony or the sacrament of Holy Orders. But the Catholic's life is intertwined with the sacraments of the Church. Instituted by Christ, God dispenses His grace to all who wish to receive throughout their lives by means of these sacraments.

These sacraments were instituted in a time when the vast, vast majority of people were utterly illiterate. To tell the typical first century Christian (or 5th Century or 10th Century or 15th Century...and in some parts of the world 21st Century) to sit and read the scriptures would be ludicrous.

Your sisters in law, your best friend, and your 20 close family members don't read the scriptures. OK, I am sorry for that. They probably don't read papal documents or any other theological text, either. Do they pray the Rosary on a regular basis? Do they go to Mass weekly or daily? Do they go to Confession regularly? When they are seriously ill (e.g., in hospital), do they receive an annointing from a priest? Are those who are married married only once or are they serial monogamists?

I ask this because, if not, they may qualify themselves as bona-fide CINOs (Catholics in Name Only). You say that a couple of them never go to church. They probably have earned the coveted CINO title. You invited them to your church? Good for you! Of course, I'd rather see them back into the Church, but if you can get them interested in some variety of Christianity, that's a far better sight than seeing them do nothing at all.

But let me ask you something. For those who do fully participate in the sacraments as they should, what is their fruit like?

As a sidebar, one thing you've mentioned twice, now, is that some of these "Catholic" friends say that there is more than one way to get to heaven. I've heard that before and it is a perversion of an actual teaching:

We believe that the only way to Salvation is through Christ. Unquestionably. Christ is the Light and this Light illuminates men's souls. We believe that the fullness of that light is revealed in Christ's Church (i.e., the Catholic Church). Those who turn away, of their own accord, from that Light will be condemned to eternal darkness unless they return to the light.

For years and years, the Catholic Church taught that those who were guilty of the crimes of heresy, schism, and apostasy were turning away from that light. However, in recent decades, the Church has come to recognize that the children of those who turned away from that light cannot be held accountable for the sins of their fathers. That Christ is mentioned and that people are, in fact, being baptized and repenting of their sins and living holy lives. The Light of Christ is shining on their lives as well. Honestly, we don't believe that the fullness of Christ's revelation is carried in those groups...but it clearly is not as if those groups are not Christian.

Then we come to the idea of Old Testament times. Were Elijah, Abraham, Isiah, Moses, David, and all of the other great heroes of the Old Testament condemned to eternal damnation because Christ had not come yet? Or was there some way that God could impart His grace to them in anticipation of the sacrifice of His Son? (think about the Transfiguration)

And what about the children? What if a child dies before he is baptized?

And what about the barbarian who, although he has NEVER heard the name of Christ, lives an upright and moral life?

In this last case (and this is where the teaching is often perverted), the Church teaches that we should not lament for that barbarian. The Church teaches that God, in His infinite Mercy, will somehow make a way for that barbarian to avoid the eternal fire. See Romans 2:13-15 --

Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

Rom 2:14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Rom 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them

Unfortunately, this teaching is often perverted into saying that there are many ways to get to heaven. Heard it before...

As to your studying of scripture, there is an ancient technique taught in the Church to accomplish this...made popular by the Benedictine Order. It's called lectio divina.

Anyway, I, too, enjoy the conversation far better than just pointing fingers and arguing...

87 posted on 04/02/2007 11:59:36 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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