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To: CANBFORGIVEN; narses
However, I would like to post a question to those who are catholic. Do you study the bible?

Yes, of course (many of us) do. Do all protestants study the Bible?

Do you have bible studies?

Yes. It is a component of our religious education for the youth (in our parish, the kids start reading scriptures early on and have to bring a Bible with them to their religious education classes in the 4th grade).

In addition, our men's group, women's group, and young adult ministries all have scripture studies on a weekly basis.

Our Lenten parish mission this year concentrated on the parable of the prodigal son, this year (yes, from scripture). In addition, we do a scripturally-based Stations of the Cross.

An integral part of our worship service (Holy Mass) each week are scripture readings. There are three readings each Sunday and Holy Day. The first is from the Old Testament. The second is from the epistles. The third is from the Gospels. In addition, a psalm is sung each week, as well. On weekday Masses, there is a reading (generally from the OT, but can be from the Book of Acts), a psalm, and a Gospel reading. If you'd like to see the readings done each weekday and Sunday, you can check them out here. Click on any day to see the readings for that day.

Additionally, there is a prayer devotion done called the Liturgy of the Hours. This prayer devotion can be done either in choir (a group) or individually. The devotion consists of extensive readings from the psalms and other poetic books of the Old Testament, readings from the remainder of scripture, and Gospel readings. The readings are divided up into a Morning prayer, an Evening Prayer, along with shorter prayers for mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and nighttime (before a person retires). There is also a rather extensive devotion that is part of this, called the Office of Readings...which has far more extensive selections. If you'd like to see what goes on with that, you can see the Universalis site.

I've seen estimated that a person participating in Daily Mass, Sunday Mass, and doing the Liturgy of the Hours will go through approximately 75% of the Bible during any given three-year liturgical cycle.

I know for me the scriptures are what make me change my behavior and thoughts.

Yes, it is very important to form one's conscience. Sacred Scripture provides a very important basis upon which that formation should occur.

Of all the catholics I know, which is alot of people, I can only think of 1 who actually read and studied the bible. It was my neighbor. I know my friends and relatives who are catholic say that the bible must be interperted by a priest and they never read it.

While it is true that scriptures must be interpreted in light of the Magesterium of the Church, it isn't true that a priest must be the one who interprets it. In fact, it is entirely possible that a given priest may be completely wrong in how he interprets scripture. After all, heretical movements, such as Liberation Theology, were started by priests. Look at it: Martin Luther (who, by Catholic terms, could hardly be considered a reliable exegete) was a priest.

Consider this: there are, at least (to my knowledge), five major branches of protestantism. Calvinists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Anabaptists, and Charismatics. Each of these groups has fundamental differences one with another. There are other groups that are considered heretical even by the majority of these groups that consider the source of their beliefs to be based upon revealed scripture (such as Jehovah's Witnesses). The vast majority of these groups consider themselves to be Bible-based and relying solely upon scripture. If that is the case, why in the world would there be fundamental differences in opinion between these groups?

I say the above, not to slam any of those groups, but to illustrate why it is important to have a guide for the understanding of the scriptures. The Magesterium, simply, is the historic teaching of the Church, as documented by the Fathers, the Councils, and as interpreted by the Holy Father and the bishops in union with him.

There are over a billion Catholics in the world. Sadly, the majority of those Catholics are in the third world, are poorly educated, if educated at all, and are, at best, functionally illiterate. Up until a hundred years ago, that condition of education and literacy would apply all over the world, including in this country. Most people in the world even today live hard lives and do not have hours and hours to devote to the study of theology or to extensive study of scripture, even if they had the education to do so. Even the availability of books to the common man was nonexistant up until the past couple of hundred years. The moveable type printing press was not around for the first 1-1/2 thousand years of the Catholic Church's existance. The historic reality of that condition for over 2,000 years has resulted in the need to develop liturgy and devotions that can be memorized and performed by rote, without regard to the person's ability to read and write. The stained glass on church windows was created to act as a picture catechism to teach people the story of salvation. The Rosary was created as a tool to allow meditation on critical events in salvation history: the birth, death, and resurrection of Our Lord. The 150 beads represent the 150 psalms.

Interpretation of scripture is a tough thing that requires a lot of work and should not be done solely by reading a single version of the Bible (particularly, imho, the KJV).

For example, this passage in 1 John 5 is confusing to many:

1Jo 5:7 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Do you realize that the Stephens Text is the only critical text that has the above? The remainder of them read as follows:

1 Jo 5:8 (RSV) There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.

(Most split verse 6 (KJV) up to have part of that verse 6 as verse 7)

So which is right? If you give ANY answer, it is your opinion. Is there a theological problem with using the KJV rendition? Is there a theological problem with using the RSV rendition? Again, YOUR opinion or MY opinion. Which is the Word of God?

The point is not to get into an argument about the above, but to point out that it DOES take some education to properly study the scriptures. Education which most do not have.

The attitude displayed by the majority of your Catholic friends is not atypical. Frankly, if you don't have the time to engage into a serious study, it is probably best not to engage in serious discussion about the subject. Should they read the scriptures? Absolutely. Should they engage in the practice of interpreting scripture independently? Unless and until they take the time to truly understand them, probably not. As St. Peter said:

2Pe 3:15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,

2Pe 3:16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.


61 posted on 04/02/2007 5:55:07 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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To: markomalley

Defensor Fidei es, Marcus.


70 posted on 04/02/2007 9:09:40 AM PDT by Frank Sheed ("Shakespeare the Papist" by Fr. Peter Milward, S.J.)
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To: markomalley

Interpretation of scripture is a tough thing that requires a lot of work and should not be done solely by reading a single version of the Bible (particularly, imho, the KJV).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

thank you for your response. I do agree with you on the above statement. But let me share with you what I do and why I asked this question.

Here is an example, both my sister in laws, my best friend, and around 20 close family members, have gone to the catholic church their entire life. None of them, and I mean 100%, know "anything" about the bible.
Basic bible stories they have heard and can kinda receit. But they don't know how they apply to them, the deeper meaning. Why are they written in Gods word. Isn't God's word suppose to be used for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness? 2 Timothy 3:16.

They also think that there is more than one way to heaven. They think it is wrong to say Christianity is the only way, when even Jesus himself said I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. He didn't say i am ONE of the ways. They think it is rude to claim that what you beleive in is right. I am baffeled by this. If you truly believe it, then you must think it is right, or why believe in it?

It's not like I walk around town telling everyone to the face, if they don't believe in Jesus then they are going to hell. However, I do speak the truth, in love, when the Holy Spirit lays the opportunity to do so before me. And many times this takes boldness. Are some offended? you bet. But that is not for me to worry about. Most others, are kind and engage in a conversation about what they believe. Just this Easter I have invited 2 families (who don't go to church) to come with us. They have accepted. I don't put the hard press on them, I have invited 1 family for over 8 years and this is the year the Lord has moved in their hearts to go. So you see it isn't me, it is God who does his work through me.

I started praying about this and during our normal everyday discussions they spout things that are so contradictory to what the bible teaches. I questioned whether they ever read the bible. I asked them and they all said no. Sure they go to church every single weekend and they attend catechism, and their children go to catholic school, but they don't read the bible at all throughout the week. They are on a shelf filled with dust. These are women in their 40's and they have never been motivated to read the scripture on their own. I find that amazing, because they are professed Christians. This is just 3 close friends/family members of mine. I have over 50 cousins and many of them are catholics, and they are exactly the same way. That is why I asked the question in the first place. I really just wanted to know.

They say there is no way I can study the bible on my own and know exactly what God wants us to learn from this. I couldn't disagree more.

Here is how I study. I first pray and ask God to reveal who he is in the scripture. Then I read what I am studying, or scripture about a particular problem I am having. I meditate on it throughout the day. I do read from several translations. I look up words in the Greek and Hebrew form of the word. Many times my understanding of the word, could of had a different meaning during the time of writing. I understand the context, who is writing the book and to whom, why? As much of that as possible. I read other's opinions and writings on the verse or verses. (with the internet you can find thousands, of course some are totally off base. I read from sources I have learned to be reliable) and then I pray about this scripture and I try to live my life by the teachings. Many times it is polar opposite of what the "world" teaches.

Most of my friends, who are Christians, study the bible just like this.In all the Christian churches I have attended, (which is 4) they have encouraged us to have a personal relationship with Jesus and to read his word everyday to be changed by it. Although I find Sunday Morning sermons, motivating and inspiring, I don't "study" scripture during this time. I hear it (which is part of the overall process) but then I do what I mentioned above to allow God to convict me of sin and help in changing my behavior.

When you know why you believe in what you believe in, it makes it possible to live with joy, despite the circumstances. The material surroundings become not important.

Thank you for writing me back. I do appreciate the conversation. It is good to know that you hear scripture, and that you offer bible studies. I just pray that my friends and family would actually go to one.


75 posted on 04/02/2007 10:02:18 AM PDT by CANBFORGIVEN (! Corinthians 2:14)
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