Posted on 03/07/2007 9:10:18 AM PST by Salvation
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Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference? |
Question: What's the difference between a Catholic Bible and a Protestant one? Is our Old Testament the same as a Jewish Bible? If not, why?
Answer: The most noticeable differences occur in the number of books included and the order in which they have been arranged. Both the Jewish Bible and the Hebrew canon in a Protestant Bible (aka Old Testament) contain 39 books, whereas a Catholic Bible contains 46 books in the Old Testament. In addition, the Greek Orthodox, or Eastern Orthodox, Church accepts a few more books as canonized scripture.
To give you a quick overview of a complicated subject, here's what happened: Several hundred years before the birth of Christ, Babylonian conquerors forced the Jews to leave Jerusalem. Away from their Temple and, often, from their priests, the exiled people forgot how to read, write, and speak Hebrew. After a while, Jewish scholars wanted to make the Bible accessible again, so they translated Hebrew scriptures into the Greek language commonly spoken. Books of wisdom and histories about the period were added, too, eventually becoming so well known that Jesus and the earliest Christian writers were familiar with them. Like the original Hebrew scriptures, the Greek texts, which were known as the Septuagint, were not in a codex or book form as we're accustomed to now but were handwritten on leather or parchment scrolls and rolled up for ease in storage.
Eventually, the Jewish exiles were allowed to return to Jerusalem where they renovated the Temple. Then, in A.D. 70, warring peoples almost completely destroyed the sacred structure, which has never been rebuilt. Without this central place of worship, the Jews began looking to the Bible as their focal point of faith, but to assure the purity of that faith, only Hebrew scriptures were allowed into the Jewish canon. By then, however, the earliest Christians spoke and read Greek, so they continued to use the Septuagint or Greek version of the Bible for many centuries. After the Reformation though, some Christians decided to accept translations into Latin then English only from the Hebrew texts that the Jewish Bible contained, so the seven additional books in the Greek translation became known as the Apocrypha, meaning "hidden." Since the books themselves were no secret, the word seemed ironic or, perhaps, prophetic because, in 1947, an Arab boy searching for a lost goat found, instead, the Dead Sea scrolls, hidden in a hillside cave.
Interestingly, the leather scrolls had been carefully wrapped in linen cloth, coated in pitch, and placed in airtight pottery jars about ten inches across and two feet high where, well-preserved, they remained for many centuries. Later, other caves in the same area yielded similar finds with hundreds of manuscripts no longer hidden. Indeed, the oldest copies of the Bible now known to exist are the Dead Sea scrolls of the Septuagint.
Because of this authentic find from antiquity, many publishers in the twentieth century added back the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, First and Second Maccabees, as well as additions to Esther and Daniel. So now, when an edition of the Bible says "with Apocrypha" on the cover, the extra books from the Septuagint will usually be placed between the Old and New Testaments or at the end of the Bible. Catholic Bibles already contained those books, however, so you'll find them interwoven with other Old Testament books of history and wisdom writings.
For the New Testament, it's a different story and short. All of the books were written in Greek or Aramaic from the start. Although some debate occurred about which Gospels or Epistles should be included, all Christians eventually accepted all of the same 27 books in the same order. So, as long as you choose an edition that does not add explanatory notes opposed to a Catholic perspective, any reputable translation of the New Testament is fine.
I don't 'spose you'd care to review the Kings and Chronicles and their likely method of compilation?
So far as other events are concerned, we are certain that entire libraries from that era have disappeared. Not to mention Alexandria, little ole Qumran should teach us that. To claim records did not exist is to claim perfect knowledge in the present of what transpired 2000 years ago.
7Q5 has not been disposed of. It is still a viable theory presented by whoever that priest was. Additionally, no one has even begun to seek for
While much of the speculation about the document known as Q (from German "quelle" for "source") is liberal and unworthy of note, the idea of a pre-gospel source is supported by Luke.
Udo Schnelle writes about the dating of Q (op. cit., p. 186):
The Sayings Source was composed before the destruction of the temple, since the sayings against Jerusalem and the temple in Luke 13.34-35Q do not presuppose any military events. A more precise determination of the time of composition must remain hypothetical, but a few indications point to the period between 40 and 50 CE: (1) Bearers of the sayings tradition, which possibly extends all the way back to pre-Easter times, included both wandering preachers of the Jesus movement as well as local congregations. Thus the conditions in which the Sayings Source originated included both continuity with the beginnings and with the developing congregational structures across the region. (2) The Sayings Source presupposes persection of the young congregations by Palestinian Jews (cf. Luke 6.22-23 Q; Luke 11.49-51 Q; Luke 12.4-5 Q; 12.11-12 Q). About 50 CE Paul mentions in 1 Thess. 2.14-16 a persecution of Christians in Judea that had already taken place. The execution of James the son of Zebedee by Agrippa I (cf. Acts 12.2) occurred around 44 CE. (3) The positive references to Gentiles in Q (cf. Luke 10.13-15Q; Luke 11.29-31Q; Matt. 8.5-13 Q; Matt. 5.47 Q; Matt. 22.1-10 Q) indicate that the Gentile mission had begun, which is probably to be located in the period between 40 and 50 CE.
That must be the reason for Matthew's mistaken reference to Jeremiah vs. Zechariah (Matthew 27:9-10)?
7Q5 has not been disposed of. It is still a viable theory...
I guess we all believe and select "evidence" that suits us. "Viable" theories exist in absence of any real proof. Yet we speak of these theories as "facts." And when all else fails, we pull the universal 'get out of jail card' clause: guided by the Holy Spirit. Think how many times has this divine name been used in vain!
frankly in as much as i find protestant beleifs to be wolves' corruption of God's word, and a rejection of God's will (with intent to convince others to do the same), i think i put things quite plainly.
FWIW, if I only have the choice of either being a robot under GOD'S control, or a robot under a church's control I will take being controlled by GOD any day.
Perhaps I'm beginning to get a glimmer of something.
Earnest efforts at faithful obedience to Scriptures God has clearly protected SUFFICIENTLY for our fruitful edification is slavish mindless robotism.
But rote, lock-step, often obviously very slavish and mindless unquestioning robotism . . . reading preprinted magicsterical prayers, preprinted, predigested everything-- IN THE SERVICE OF THE MAGICSTERICAL and TRADITIONS OF MEN is pretty good alright--even elevated holy and super righteous compared to those evil idiot mindless robot Protesties.
ROTFLOL BLTTM [Belly Laugh To The Max] FOMCLOL [Falling Off My Chair Laughing Out Loud] ROTFLMHO [Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Head Off] ITTM [Incredulous To The Max] GTTM [Guffaws To The Max] SHSMEACAB [Shaking Head So Much Ears Are Creating A Breeze] SHSMIHCBFMLN [Shaking Head So Much I Have Cheek Bruises From My Long Nose]
Sometimes, it seems like the MAGICSTERICAL has destroyed all it's mirrors and erased the whole notion of personal insight from it's rubber dictionary and from it's experience. Then it's rushed out and mind melded that reality on all the serfs. Amazing. Yet the Protesties are the robots. GTTM! SHSMIHCBFMLN
I thought parochial schools taught logical thinking. Maybe they gave it up for lent. LOL.
Sigh.
I will take being controlled by GOD any day.
= = =
INDEED.
But what happened to this notion of Christ dying that we might have more FREEDOM vs the MINDLESS SLAVERY OF SIN! ????
Mind boggling. Evidently the Orthodox et al rarely to never have very intense dialogues with God Almighty, Son, Spirit. And thoughtfulness about the topic seems to only engender more silly statements vs insights into reality. Mind Boggling. Hard to fathom.
I do see God as the master artist who doesnt mix all the colors on His palette into one, but rather uses each color in contrast to the other to create His living masterpiece.
But with regard to New Jerusalem foundation gemstones not including a diamond (clarity) - the bottom foundation gemstone is Jasper which is green or clear. And the clear Jasper is the variety of Jasper being spoken of in Revelation. The Jasper is also used in Revelation 4:3 to describe the Throne of God:
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Rev 4:3
New Jerusalem itself including its streets are pure gold, like clear glass according to Revelation 21.
From all of these, my leading in the Spirit is that striving to be transparent in Him is ok, too. And I will continue to do so.
An interesting link to colors and how they are used in marketing, i.e. the emotions they bright out in us: Color Wheel Pro - See Color Theory in Action
I have always thought of church in terms as a place for worship, fellowship with other believers, a source to grow and understand. I have never thought of church as a filter for my contact with God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. I think this is probably the source of the big disconnect between most Christian Sects and the RC's and EO.
From all of these, my leading in the Spirit is that striving to be transparent in Him is ok, too. And I will continue to do so.
= = =
Wouldn't want to hinder or detour you from anything Holy Spirit impressed on you as worthwhile! Goodness!
And, I actually have some affinity for that perspective myself.
It's just that in the current discussion . . . the robot thing seems to have carried it to an absurd length--TO ME.
And, FOR ME, to an unBiblical length. Christ Died for us to have MORE FREEDOM IN HIM . . . from the slavery of sin . . . NOT less freedom IN HIM with NO personality and NO choices as personalities.
imho, of course.
BTW, Thanks for the color link.
In terms of striving . . . has been a PROBLEM much of my life. Seems to me, Most of Scripture--at least NT-wise--exhorts AGAINST striving.
Maybe it's a tricky concept.
Then again, maybe we just aren't to do it, period. "Let Go and Let God"
But how do we "Let Go and Let God" and still be responsible for what we are responsible for and NOT strive?
I have always thought of church in terms as a place for worship, fellowship with other believers, a source to grow and understand. I have never thought of church as a filter for my contact with God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. I think this is probably the source of the big disconnect between most Christian Sects and the RC's and EO.
= = =
INDEED. Likely so.
I agree wholeheartedly. Church at best facilitates intimacy with God. When it has attempted to filter--it's always been abusive, imho. And, God has NOT been at all pleased.
God wants . . . Christ died that we might each individually have INTIMACY WITH DADDY.
Or in another Biblical analogy of Christ's Love for the Church . . . His Body . . .
Who wants the magisterical in the honey moon bed???
have you ever BEEN to an orthodox church?
ours has a 2 hour 'coffee hour'.
i think your allegations of 'filtering' and 'lack of fellowship' are frankly made up.
interestingly Christ asserted that the only way to the father was through the son and that the church was the body of Christ.
seems to me that your 'go directly to God' ideology has no basis in scripture.
I imagine you do.
Don't you folks believe that communion imparts Grace and without the "proper" church serving communion you will lose Grace?
Don't you folks believe Baptism by the "proper" church is essential for salvation?
It sounds like your or the Orthodox view (or both) is that any individual book of the Bible could be riddled with error, but that the Bible taken as a whole is nevertheless still "God's inspired word". Is that right? If so, then I don't understand what your definition of "inspired" is? Would it be on the same level as a nonthreatening suggestion by God as to what to write, or is it more like the writers' "inspiration" really just came from their own memories, as best as they could recall? (That is, that God did not especially "touch" any of the writers specifically by miracle in what they wrote.)
IOW, if the writers' thoughts were only their own, and God was not working through them via miracle, which is the only way to not be under God's guidance and will, then the Bible MUST contain error. It would follow then that God never works through any of us because that would be an assault on our free wills and we would be robots. What is your view of the concept of "God working through us"?
well considering as anyone baptised in the name of the father son and holy spirit can be chrismated (which a sacrement where the Holy Spirit seals the baptism) into the church rather than rebaptised i'd say you're second allegation is just strange.
also seeing as we do not beleive that the priest personally changes the eucharist but rather God does it seems rather less dependant on the priest that on God.
i would say that the purpose of the Church Christ established is to articulate the truth with regard to potential linguistic vagarities in the text of scripture.
Amen. This is the heart of Sola Scriptura and the basis for our Christian confidence in His word -- we trust that it is the Holy Spirit who gives knowledge and wisdom and brings light to our darkness.
"For by the Scripture as our guide and teacher, God not only makes those things plain which would otherwise escape our notice, but almost compels us to behold them; as if he had assisted our dull sight with spectacles." -- JOHN CALVIN "Commentary on Genesis" Vol. I
"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth" -- Colossians 1:5-6
Saved by faith in Jesus Christ, which comes by hearing the word of God, according to the will of God, for the glory of God.
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