Nuevo Catholics (CA Church bursting at seams)

NY Times ^ | December 24, 2006 | David Rieff

[NYer]

Like the three services celebrated earlier in the morning and the four that will follow into the afternoon, the 10:45 a.m. Sunday Mass at St. Thomas the Apostle Church in the Pico-Union district of downtown Los Angeles is crammed to the rafters, even though the church holds nearly 1,000 parishioners. When I spoke on a recent Sunday to Msgr. Jarlath Cunnane, or Father Jay, as he is known by his congregation, he said: “If we had the space, I think another thousand people might well come to each Sunday Mass. We’re full, bursting at the seams, and so are most churches in the archdiocese.”

[sheana]

ho....ho....ho.....

My life is just fine, thank you!

And Merry Christmas to you too.

[carolinalivin]

This picture is of a man posing as a cardinal of the roman catholic church. He has hidden records of child molestors from civil authorities and transferred them around in order to hide the problem. Yet, he still has his job and is apparently a hero to hundreds of thousands who don't care about what happened to other people's children.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"I hope I'm not the first to tell you, but Catholics are the original Christians. "

This is false. Clearly so.

"As for "illegal," the whole problem is that our laws do not legally accomodate enough of the Latin American workers who want to come here."

Interesting opinion you have. If our laws don't accommodate enough of something, crime to provide more is OK with you? One's job may not provide enough money to pay for one's lifestyle... so, robbing a bank is an acceptable remedy? That's the argument you make here.

"Or maybe you'd prefer the Muslims whose quota has recently been increased... "

That's not the choice here. Of course, I think you should ask your representatives why the government is importing both the Marxist 3rd World and the Jihadist 3rd World at an increasing rate.....

"Quit hating Catholics and your life might take a turn for the better."

Start being one. Read the Catechism.

[vharlow]

I attended Mass on Sundays at St. Jerome on Fairfax in West Hollywood. Two sundays in a row during September. There were only a handful of people attending. I believe its Fairfax that divides Hollywood from West Hollywood. St. Jerome's is on the West Hollywood side. So, where were all the people then?

[livius]

I'm assuming you're sola scriptura person. Who do you think gave you the Scriptures?

The Church was there with the first apostles. You probably don't know this, but every Catholic bishop has a "pedigree" going back to the Apostle who ordained his line of bishops. Bishops are the successors to the Apostles, and the priests ordained by them are "ministers," that is, people carrying out the work delegated to them.

Most of the records were kept in the Vatican library and were destroyed (by the French, IIRC) in an attack on Italy in the 16th cenyury.

Do a little historical research and you might become a Catholic. One can only hope, and I will be praying for you.

[livius]

Well, that's good. I hope we all have a great Christmas because, frankly, there are only two things I worry about: the Muzzies and the Dems.

I think we should pray for both groups. I have a website and blog on Spanish Nativity figures, etc. and a very sweet Muslim wrote to me the other day to tell me how much he loved the Virgin! I think there are some sincere and decent folk among them, and Christians should reach out to them.

As for Dems, I'm not so sure...LOL!

Merry Christmas, in any case!

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"I'm assuming you're sola scriptura person. Who do you think gave you the Scriptures? "

God. Passed by way of the Jews and Greeks, primarily.

There are several churches as old as the RCC, livius.

"The Church was there with the first apostles. "

The RCC has no more a connection to the Apostles than any other denomination. We are all their inheritors, not just Rome.

"You probably don't know this, but every Catholic bishop has a "pedigree" going back to the Apostle who ordained his line of bishops."

This is only an RCC teaching, which makes your argument circular.

"Bishops are the successors to the Apostles, and the priests ordained by them are "ministers," that is, people carrying out the work delegated to them."

This is also false.

"Do a little historical research and you might become a Catholic. One can only hope, and I will be praying for you."

I have done such research. In fact, that's the reason I call myself Protestant. I have nothing particularly against the RCC as an institution. I just don't accept RCC teaching as fact without Scripture to back it up. You are free to believe Church tradition as you will, but don't expect your statements to go unchallenged by non-Catholic Christians that they aren't "Christians" and that the RCC is the only Church. It is not. We are all in this little war with Islam together and it's about time to recognize what Christ was talking about when he referred to his Church - the body of believers, not a specific quasi-political organization founded in Rome centuries after he ascended - despite that this may conflict with Roman Catholic teaching. I think the Pope recognizes this in his increased contacts with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Perhaps you should follow his example.

The reason the RCC became ascendant among the other Christian churches was Constantine.

[livius]

No, actually it was St. Peter.

In any case, tonight, all the animals are kneeling in the stable and we shouldn't be arguing.

God bless and Merry Christmas.

[Wonder Warthog]

"As for "illegal," the whole problem is that our laws do not legally accomodate enough of the Latin American workers who want to come here. Or maybe you'd prefer the Muslims whose quota has recently been increased..."

Too bad. Until the laws are changed, any and all illegals should be deported. If you want the laws changed, lobby for that---NOT for illegal immigration and support of illegal immigrants.

There's another part of the "Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church" that you pro-illegal types always ignore--and that i s that any sovereign nation has the right to determine who becomes a citizen.

"Quit hating Catholics and your life might take a turn for the better."

Well, you can't hang that tag on me, because I "are" one.

[livius]

any sovereign nation has the right to determine who becomes a citizen.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Let them become citizens.

God bless and Merry Christmas.

[Barnacle]

Hispanics will make fine citizens if (a) Anglos stop attacking them and (b) FReepers help to peel the Demonrat party off their backs.

Hispanics will make fine citizens if they come into our country by legal means and make an effort to learn English and assimilate into the American culture.

Otherwise... fogetaboutit.

[PAR35]

There were only a handful of people attending.

I'm guessing you went to an English language Mass. Try a Spanish Mass and see how the crowds are.

[Wonder Warthog]

"That's exactly what I'm saying. Let them become citizens."

What, and reward their illegal actions?? The LAST thing we need in the US is a very large group, self-selected for their tendency to put their own selfish purposes ahead of obeying our laws.

Sorry, but I can't agree. By their very actions they have proven themselves unworthy of citizenship.

[RKBA Democrat]

"As for Dems, I'm not so sure...LOL!"

Y'know, I drove by several churches yesterday that were chock full of folks celebrating the Nativity of our Lord. These folks were almost all fellow Democrats. How would I know? Because they're black, and statistically speaking in this area, the vast majority of blacks are Democrats.

I know some of these folks. They're my neighbors and we sometimes run in the same social circles because of our shared interest in politics. When you get to talk with people and see what they think, you get an interesting insight as to what they're all about. And I'll tell you this; the level of spirituality and "Christ-centeredness" that I see amongst these folks puts my own feeble attempts to shame.

[livius]

The things keeping them from learning English are the Dems and the teachers' unions. Bush's proposal would have taken the emphasis off the fraud that is "bilingual education" and put money into teaching English to both children and adults. Hispanics and all immigrants are aware that if they do not learn English, they will be at the bottom of the economic ladder for the rest of their lives. He also proposed mandatory history and civics classes.

Once upon a time, these things used to be pretty automatic; kids who went to public school got ONLY English and they got US history, fairly standard and to the point. Now the entire system is completely messed up and immigrants are not the only ones who come out of it not having learned anything about the US or the English language.

As I say, get the Dems and the left out of the equation, and most immigrants would be thrilled to make the transition. That's what they came here for, after all. As for those who don't want to stay (and there are some who just come to make money and then want to go back), give them a guest worker program so they actually can go home legally once their stint is up.

[livius]

Heck, if you lived in those countries, you'd probably be crawling across the border at midnight, too.

When our 19th century immigrant parents came in, btw, standards were much more lax. All you really needed to be was healthy and free of TB, and have the address of people here who would house you or support you while you got on your feet. Many of the things such as teaching English, hygeine, etc. were done by private voluntary organizations.

Part of the problem is that we have a vast welfare state that we didn't have in the 19th century, and this has complicated even immigration enormously.

[livius]

Oh, there are perfectly decent individuals among Dems; the Dems I'm talking about are the policy makers and their special interest groups (public school teacher's unions, etc.).

A lot of Dems are just - well, sort of ethnic Dems. They may be black, they may be Irish or some other white ethnic group, but they really haven't consciously chosen any party. Being a Dem is just part of their environment.

That said, I wish they'd be a little more analytical about it! Supporting the Dems supports all their institutional evils, such as their support for abortion and euthanasia, etc. People never think of it that way, unfortunately.

[Clemenza]

1. When my Italian ancestors came here, the women would go to Church and pray their rosary outloud, often louder than the (usually Irish) Priest was chanting in Latin. They would often get up in the middle of the mass to leave.

2. Southern Italian men did not usually go to Church at all. When they did, they would often talk with eachother during mass and (if they were literate) read newspapers.

BTW: Enough of this "Third World" crap. It is a cold war term that no longer applys. As Livius points out, the Irish who came here in the 19th century were humble, but filthy people, which reminds me of a joke I heard many years ago at a funeral of all places (and, interestingly enough, was used in an episode of Law and Order years later):

"What's the difference between shanty Irish and lace curtain Irish?"

"Lace curtain Irish take the dishes out of the sink BEFORE they pee in it."

Merry Christmas. Feliz Navidad. Buon Natale. Wesolych Swiat.

[sheana]

pfffffffffffftttt!!!!!!!

[Barnacle]

I sense an agenda here. Do you have a personal or financial interest that would be affected if immigration laws were enforced beginning tomorrow?