Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
By John-Henry Westen
NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.
While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."
In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.
The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."
Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".
The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."
Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."
Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."
Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."
Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."
And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."
See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/
She is with Christ, Who is.
Pope Leo xiii said that the only way to get to Christ is through Mary. True or untrue?
So, you pray to Mary and Jesus is her secretary relaying the message to her?
If you mean Revelation, the last time I looked in my Protestant bible, it was there. I don't know where this idea of Luther ripping out James, Revelation and everything else started from. It is true that Luther did not much care for these books but, truth be told, neither did a vast majority of Christian leaders at the time. It is a testimony of God's will that those books remained.
Yeah - only I wouldn't dignify the process with the name of thinking. But St. Anthony is famous for helping people find stuff. So the suggestion (and that's all it is) is that God LIKES it (so to speak) when we ask the saints to intercede for us.
All MY sheriff's office example was meant to deal with was the argument that saying "Mary save us" was not necessarily asking for anything more than intercession. It won't help with whether it's good to pray to the saints for their intercession.
But I don't "think" you talk to me in any way similar to the way you talk to Mary.You haven't heard me talk to Mary! Or actually, on a minute by minute basis, I talk to God more than I talk to Mary. Sometimes I talk to Mary or to other saints, doing the dished, cooking breakfast, shivering outside while I gather wood, whatever, but mostly I talk to God the Father, and some to Jesus.
It's when I really want to listen that I do the bowing the head etc.
And you haven't heard me, as a counsellor or (former, sort of) pastor, talk to another human-type personnel. When I am pastorally counselling I am in my "victim's" (okay, "client", but victim is funnier) presence AND in God's presence, and remembering where I am. So that praying and "counselling" blend into each other.
And often I am the mediator, yes,that's right: even I! (sometimes I think God has NO class, no discrimination -- and I'm glad!) The person who came to me came to me, precisely to speak to God and to hear God. I am supposed to be the telephone and more, the facilitator of communication,. (Any human who thinks s/he's worthy of being a chaplain or a pastor is out of his or her as the case may be mind. SO in general, when I am being REALLY facetious and "un-recollected" THEN there's a difference between talking to you and talking to God, but when I'm behaving, there's not. God is here; you are here; let's talk - which includes listening.
Simple, facetious syllogism: Mary is in God's company' I am (trying to be) in Mary's company; therefore I am (trying to be) in God's company. AS I said earlier in another post, when (as we usually do) the boss-lady and I combine our intercessions with our Rosary, it is even more fluid than turning from one speaker or auditor to another to go from "Hail, Mary" to "Please bless so-and so.
God is here, for everywhere is "here" to God. Mary is with God -> Mary is here . The problem with prayer is that we are so rarely here.
Please don't think of this as argument. This is more reporting, and, of course, I could be very deluded. It just doesn't seem like that. It seems more like being in love.
De-votion -- Word study time. I have no idea how it's used in the Bible. As it shapes it has to do with vows. Then there's the song "Hopelessly Devoted". I have no clue where that leaves us.
Thanks for your nice words about what the boss-lady and I went through. It was not nice. The child, now a young adult, is fabulous.
Thank you for this conversation. It's very nice.
Hmmmm...then would you agree with Vatican II in doing away with the Latin Mass?
On a side note, a guy I work with loves to persecute me when I can't find something by saying "Call on Tony! Tony, Tony turn around, something's lost and can't be found." He even posted a newspaper article on his wall about someone crediting Tony with finding her wedding ring.
The Catechism, in the Sunday Missal (Catholic Catechism) says, “My salvation depends on Mary’s mediation and union with Christ, because of her exalted position as Mediatrix of all grace.”
Not quite accurate. The Hebrew forefathers never accepted what the Church deemed inspired 300 years later. And there were different lists as to what was inspired all the way to the fourth century. It really depends on the group of people. One could easily make the case (as us Protestants have) that the same people who determined the books that you accept as inspired, they rejected.
MOI? InferiORiddy complex? It is to LAFF! hah HAH!
There! I trust I've disposed of that.
I may have said this once before. it may be obvious to everyonw but me, but it's a whole new idea to moi.
Analogy: Pole A (the thing we know): We cannot "PROVE" Newton's Laws of Motion from observation. BUT when we postulate the laws of motion and the law of graviuty, we find that nature makes WAY more sense and is more predictable, and more useful.
Pole B (the thing we are asked to consider): We cannot PROVE the Doctrine of the Trinity (or the RCC/EO notion of Church, works, etc.) FROM Scripture. BUT when we postulate them, Scripture (and our lives) make more sense, are more predictable, blah blah blah.
Further, theology will always be a mess. Always, Because everything we say about God, is wronger than it is right, because every act of predication about God is made in a grammatical structure that treats God like any other entity fit to be subject of a sentence.
That does NOT mean that some things are NOT wronger (or not better, more true) than others. Some things ought to be said, and some ought NOT to be said, at least not without a lot of hedging and weaselling.
Further, the phenomena of religious experience are very difficult to nail down in a way that one can build a compelling and rhetorically persuaive logical argument from them. I remember making a mobius strip and saying,"See it has only one side!" My interlocutor said, "No. it's just that when you say side, you mean something different from what I mean." It was a long an painful process to get her to see that when she THOUGHT about what she meant by side, she saw that she meant, well, the kind of thing that a mobius strip only has one of.
If the number of sides a mobius stip has is so difficult to reach a conclusive agreement on, how much harder will it be to reach a good understandig of the word "salvific" in the economy of salvtion?
You ever try to talk to a woman ( or person of the sex that you ain't of) about the difference between men and women? Whenever I haven't been frustrated enough, I try that one again. Almost without exception what always happens is that after some conversation you think you've actually reached an agreement. Call the papers! Breakthrough. The prospect of peace in the war of the sexes. But then one or other party to the conversation attempts a mere rephrasing, possibly with an example. And the other one says,"Are you KIDDING ME? That's not it at ALL!"
So also when RCCs and Protestants gather to discuss prayer to Mary or the word Salvific, as it applies to works.
That's what I mean by hard or impossible to prove
The Holy Trinity is YOUR secretary!
The atoms of ink and paper, the phosphors and whatever aether the light passes through, the vinrations in the air and the tickling of hairs in our cochlea -- all this is from God and by God.
The electro-chemical reactions which lead the stimulation on your retinae or ear drums back to the meat CPU where you become conscious of them and have a thought about them, ...
The society that taught you to speak and read and write, the mother and Father who loved and love you, the teachers, the pastors, the scholars -- all of them were served, and borne up, and carried over many difficulties - but more amazingly through the daily miracles we take for granted: speech, air, light, meaning, and the capacity to apprehend it ...
The Holy Trinity is your nurse, and secretary. He who came to serve, served long before He came.
And if He serve you and us, why not her?
Here is some good data I came upon at Seminary.
Not my own data but by Billie Hanks, Jr.
Starts with a hypothetical concept statement
The Trinity
Concept Statement: If there is one God, and if there are three persons called God in the Bible, then by faith I must accept the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, even though my mind can not fully comprehend how God can be one yet three in perfect harmony and completeness.
1. Deuteronomy 6:4- There is only one God, Jehovah.
2. Isaiah 43:10-11 – He is the LORD and only Savior.
3. Isaiah 44:6- He is the first and the last.
4. Revelation 1:8- He is the Lord God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega.
5. Revelation 22:13, 16- Jesus is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.
6. Revelation 1:17-18 – The one God who was the first and the last died and rose again!
7. Hebrews 1:1, 2,8- God the Father calls the Son, “God.”
8. Acts 5:3-4 – Peter calls the Holy Spirit, “God.”
9. John 6:27- Jesus calls the Father, “God.”
The Trinity revealed in the Resurrection
1. Acts 10:39-40 – God raise Christ from the dead.
2. 1 Thessalonians 1:10- God the Father raised the Son from the dead.
3. Romans 8:11- God the Spirit raised the Son from the dead.
4. John 2:19-22- God the Son raised Himself from the dead.
See He's a nice guy. Works for Protestants too ....
The Holy Trinity is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God.
How can Mary hear and discern all of those prayers being directed towards her unless she is omniscient and omnipresent? The answer was that she was with Jesus and he is Omniscient and omnipresent. Pardon me if that conjures up images of Jesus looking to Mary "Hey, Mom. Mad Dawg is talking to you." Mary: "What is he saying, Son?" "He wants you to ask me to be merciful unto him because of that thing he did yesterday." "What was that?" "Oh, he was wanting to curse at Blogger on the internet" "Oh dear, okay. Well. Son, would you be merciful to Mad Dawg for..." "Just a second, Mom, Annalex is trying to ask you to ask me something."
The real acid test is to take that list and run it by some Jehovah's Witnesses.
Good Luck! heh heh heh.
Now to go fall asleep in front of the TV. I may not know how to do theology, but I know how to have fun!
ArgggghhhhH!!!!
Yes, Tony! The Patron saint of lost things and tweaking Blogger!
My prof did. The JW asked him to come back the next week after he spoke with someone else. My prof returned the next week, but the man wouldn't open the door (after weeks of dialogue) and was told I am not to speak with you again.
My goodness, HD, you don't even seem to know what deuterocanonical books are and you are debating the issue!
So are we agreed He's her Secretary?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.