Yeah - only I wouldn't dignify the process with the name of thinking. But St. Anthony is famous for helping people find stuff. So the suggestion (and that's all it is) is that God LIKES it (so to speak) when we ask the saints to intercede for us.
All MY sheriff's office example was meant to deal with was the argument that saying "Mary save us" was not necessarily asking for anything more than intercession. It won't help with whether it's good to pray to the saints for their intercession.
But I don't "think" you talk to me in any way similar to the way you talk to Mary.You haven't heard me talk to Mary! Or actually, on a minute by minute basis, I talk to God more than I talk to Mary. Sometimes I talk to Mary or to other saints, doing the dished, cooking breakfast, shivering outside while I gather wood, whatever, but mostly I talk to God the Father, and some to Jesus.
It's when I really want to listen that I do the bowing the head etc.
And you haven't heard me, as a counsellor or (former, sort of) pastor, talk to another human-type personnel. When I am pastorally counselling I am in my "victim's" (okay, "client", but victim is funnier) presence AND in God's presence, and remembering where I am. So that praying and "counselling" blend into each other.
And often I am the mediator, yes,that's right: even I! (sometimes I think God has NO class, no discrimination -- and I'm glad!) The person who came to me came to me, precisely to speak to God and to hear God. I am supposed to be the telephone and more, the facilitator of communication,. (Any human who thinks s/he's worthy of being a chaplain or a pastor is out of his or her as the case may be mind. SO in general, when I am being REALLY facetious and "un-recollected" THEN there's a difference between talking to you and talking to God, but when I'm behaving, there's not. God is here; you are here; let's talk - which includes listening.
Simple, facetious syllogism: Mary is in God's company' I am (trying to be) in Mary's company; therefore I am (trying to be) in God's company. AS I said earlier in another post, when (as we usually do) the boss-lady and I combine our intercessions with our Rosary, it is even more fluid than turning from one speaker or auditor to another to go from "Hail, Mary" to "Please bless so-and so.
God is here, for everywhere is "here" to God. Mary is with God -> Mary is here . The problem with prayer is that we are so rarely here.
Please don't think of this as argument. This is more reporting, and, of course, I could be very deluded. It just doesn't seem like that. It seems more like being in love.
De-votion -- Word study time. I have no idea how it's used in the Bible. As it shapes it has to do with vows. Then there's the song "Hopelessly Devoted". I have no clue where that leaves us.
Thanks for your nice words about what the boss-lady and I went through. It was not nice. The child, now a young adult, is fabulous.
Thank you for this conversation. It's very nice.
On a side note, a guy I work with loves to persecute me when I can't find something by saying "Call on Tony! Tony, Tony turn around, something's lost and can't be found." He even posted a newspaper article on his wall about someone crediting Tony with finding her wedding ring.
Yeah - only I wouldn't dignify the process with the name of thinking. But St. Anthony is famous for helping people find stuff. So the suggestion (and that's all it is) is that God LIKES it (so to speak) when we ask the saints to intercede for us.
I suppose my angle would be that any prayer being answered favorably to the beneficiary, whether saints actually pray for us or not, is wholly dependent on whether the subject matter was within God's will. That's why I struggle with any idea that one person's prayer, be it from a saint or from my own pastor, can have any more "pull" than the prayer of myself or any other true believer. If I asked you and my pastor to pray for me about something, I would simply be happy that two good Christians were praying for me. I wouldn't think that one would carry any more weight than the other.
Sometimes I talk to Mary or to other saints, doing the dished, cooking breakfast, shivering outside while I gather wood, whatever, but mostly I talk to God the Father, and some to Jesus.
OK, that's good the hear. I only have very limited anecdotal evidence among Catholics I have known in the workplace, etc. I've seen the names of Mary and the saints invoked often, and God directly, less so. But of course I have no idea what they do with the rest of their days.
Thank you also for this very civil conversation. I really enjoy learning about your beliefs and practices.