Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
By John-Henry Westen
NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.
While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."
In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.
The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."
Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".
The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."
Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."
Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."
Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."
Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."
And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."
See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/
Correction.
Should read God,s own image “and likeness”
There is a place where there is no free will.
That place is hell.Once someone is in hell they lose the ability to love and there is nothing they can do to ever please God. Total Depravity it is basically hell
We don't know (does He tell us?), but He is not driven by possibilities, or uncertainties is He?
Do we pass a test and then God is obligated to let us in?
No, because that would subject God to necessity. Anyway, He would already know our test scores before we took the test, so it would not be a choice, would it? :)
In addition, I assume your position is that Jesus Christ did NOT choose to die for us on the cross
Was there a choice or just His will? He willed Himself to die; He didn't "choose" to die as if there was an alternative, was there?
I find it odd that you are denying free will to God
Not His will, only His need to choose. To will something is not necessarily the same to choose. When God said "Let there be light" was He choosing? Or was He willing? Or when He said "Let Us make man in Our image and likeness..." was He choosing or willing?
A choice requires a decision and a decision requires a will. Clearly, a decision and a choice are subordinate to will. God's will is not subordinate to anything.
Well said.
As opposed to a wondering, uncertain, guessing, dice-playing God?
Have you been assimilated into the Borg hive?..
But Muslims are not pious Jews. The Jews had the Law, which said to not murder (an innocent). I cannot recall OT Jews going around on their own authority slaughtering non-Jews. To the contrary, God wanted them to be a peculiar people in the good sense. But I agree with you that Saul may well have not understood that what he was doing was wrong at the time. As I said, he SHOULD have known.
SO yeah, if Paul had had a heart attack instead of a vision on the road to Damascus, I guess he'd be in the warm place now.
Yes, exactly. I think he says as much himself.
Then, I can see a scrupulous thinker wondering,"Suppose I'm just really, really wrong," or thinking, "My sinfulness is so wretched that only an innocent man could pay the price of it ... uh, wait a minute! Oh. My. God." I'm suggesting, I guess, that God works slowly and carefully, and that He had His eye on Paul and finally finally got him to take the bait, and rejoicing reeled him in.
Well, I think that your description is truly the way most of us experience our conversions. It is valid. And, IMHO, if there is ONE guy in the Bible who doesn't follow this model, I would say it was Saul. :) As I understand it, he was on the road to Damascus in order to hunt down more Christians. I think he was literally ZAPPED, like a lightning bolt from cloud #9. From the text, I don't get the impression that he was cajoled at all. I think he had an industrial strength attitude adjustment against his will. There's nothing like total blindness to get a guy's attention. :) Plus we are told that Paul did not learn the faith by men, it was directly taught by Christ. So, I don't think Paul was free to say "no thanks". His heart was changed in an instant, rather than slowly, and he wanted to succumb.
I didn't say God gives us sinful souls, I said that God contemplated them that way. When He knew us before the foundations, He knew us to have sinful natures. It comes down to the physical mechanics of how original sin is transferred from parent to child. Does it go to nature, but not soul? Are nature and soul the same thing? I don't know how that works mechanically. I know that you don't believe in original sin, but I also believe that you don't think that we are born in the same state that Adam was created in. SO, we face the same question.
I agree. I have read that there are some theology problems with the message, but I've never looked at the music with that critical eye. I just remember all the wonderful times I had in the 70's and early 80's listening to it over and over again as my vinyl warped. :) And, it's funny because when I WAS listening to it all the time I was a lost person! :) At least it kept the name of God in my mind toward what would happen later. So for me, I consider it a "good".
I think the answer is obvious. God grants His creatures everything but perfect knowledge. It is our responsibility to seek this knowledge from God. It's this knowldege that Eve and Adam lacked. It is also the knowledge that Satan lacked. When man (and Satan) failed to seek God's advise, they fell. You can hardly blame God for people not coming to Him with their problems.
There is only one thing that man relies upon, and that is God. When man strays from that path, he sins.
I can pose thousands of questions like this.
Any other questions? Please just don't ask me about the Trinity or eschatology.
AMEN! I often think about this. Along the same lines, it really truly does help me greatly, when I worry about my day to day troubles, to think that one day I will be laughing at their trivialness in Heaven. :)
We most certainly do know what determines a person's entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven! And thank Our Glorious God for such certainty!
"He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
~John 3:33, 36
We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
~1 John 5:9-13
Good one, HarleyD! Also -
For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities:
but fear thou God.
~Ecclesiastes 5:7
Some good points.
Faith in God REGARDLESS is a high priority.
Been reading a lot on an alternative news conspiracy UFO website . . .
AboveTopSecret.com
Am a bit shocked, even me . . . at how far some things have progressed since I last check such a site . . .
Evidently folks in Tucson are seriously leaving and considering leaving because they feel that war is going to literally continue to spill over the Mexican border with the USA government essentially doing nothing. . . . with border patrol agents voting no confidence in their supervisors because of such skull duggery on the part of the FED masters.
And folks who grew up on military bases have gone back and investigated back little used areas of the bases and find that the stories of the detention camps set up on them are TRUE.
I don’t think folks realize how ESSENTIAL, ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL
FAITH IN GOD AND GOD ALONE is going to be . . . even if Christians are “only” here for the “birth pangs” of END TIMES.
imho, of course.
FORGOTTEN PING to various
Some good points.
Faith in God REGARDLESS is a high priority.
Been reading a lot on an alternative news conspiracy UFO website . . .
AboveTopSecret.com
Am a bit shocked, even me . . . at how far some things have progressed since I last check such a site . . .
Evidently folks in Tucson are seriously leaving and considering leaving because they feel that war is going to literally continue to spill over the Mexican border with the USA government essentially doing nothing. . . . with border patrol agents voting no confidence in their supervisors because of such skull duggery on the part of the FED masters.
And folks who grew up on military bases have gone back and investigated back little used areas of the bases and find that the stories of the detention camps set up on them are TRUE.
I don’t think folks realize how ESSENTIAL, ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL
FAITH IN GOD AND GOD ALONE is going to be . . . even if Christians are “only” here for the “birth pangs” of END TIMES.
imho, of course.
We Calvinists are smarter than the average synergist. :O)
= = =
Please show me the stats on that! LOL.
Well, as a Reformer, I didn't "pick" Christianity, God picked me! :) And, I don't need to know the practices of the early Christians (e.g. sign of the cross, altar calls), I need to know the correct theology. I believe the Bible alone provides that, regardless of how many or how few of the first Christians had it right. Christians need to know the theology of the Gospel of Christ. We don't need Tradition for that, the Bible gives it to us.
You are special pleading - you claim that God guards the contents of the Christian Scriptures, but really, how true is that and what evidence do you have of that?
We both have faith that it happens. Yours is in the men of your Church, and mine is directly in God Himself. I guess to you that is special pleading? :)
If you discount Christian history, you have tossed aside any claim that Christianity has in its historical truths.
I don't "discount" Christian history. I just know that there are different historians who come to different conclusions, especially on this. Even on this thread we have seen multiple examples of differing historical views as to how the Bible came into being and what the first Christians believed theologically and practiced. I don't think it is by any means "settled". To me, logically, if it WAS settled, then we wouldn't be here having this debate. :)
On the contrary. While I haven't thought this through entirely, I would submit to you that hell is the ONLY place there is free will. Beings will be totally free to live in utter torment apart from God. Like the Eygptians who groped in the darkness for three days, so will people who go to hell.
OTOH, those who will be received into God's kingdom are those who are willing to serve Him fully and completely. They relequish any will they have to become full slaves of the living God. There is no free will in heaven. There is only the will of the Father.
You are so right. There’s supposed to be a detention camp up at Fort Drum as well. Lots of them going up—for illegal aliens? Uhuh, for Christians. We certainly need to be praying and interceding for not only our country but for each other as well. Hard times are coming in the way of economics and attacks on our beloved country. I pray not to be afraid but it’s hard not to worry about what these things will mean for our children and grandchildren. I don’t care if I die, but I am concerned for the salvation of my family who don’t know Him yet. Love, M
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