Defending the Roman Catholic Faith: Catholic Apologetics (vanity)

Oct. 19 | Global2010

[Global2010]

Hi Ya'll,

Need some quick to the point answers to what you all as Roman Catholics are asked by non Catholics.

It is my homework assignment and I told my teacher I would post this vanity to help sort out ???? that I will be asked as a Catholic in years to come.

I am not having a problem with ???? about chastity, prudence, temptations, reading the Holy Bible ect...

I know in my head answers to ???? below but having a hard time articulating them.

Questions about our Mother Mary and the Saints, going to Heaven/purgatory takes more then just saving Grace (once saved always saved non Catholic Christians often say).

What ??? are you all often faced to answer? I don't want to go into a deep theological discussion with other non Catholics just a quick to the point answer would suffice.

My idea of just telling them to take an Adult Conservative Catechism Class and they will have all the answers is not really acceptable in defending the faith (lol but it does swiftly end discussion).

[TradicalRC]

2. forbidding contraception methods in over-populated and impoverished places. Of course I am against abortion. I am also against starvation.

I should like to point out that right up until the 1930's Every Christian denomination was against contraception. Chastity was considered a major virtue. Now most "Christians" no longer distinguish themselves from the secular world regarding contraception, abortion, premarital sex and homosexuality.

[BipolarBob]

Good point. Unfortunately with the rapes and prostitution going on in impoverished countries some sort of means to prevent unwanted pregnacies may be warranted. These poor women (girls?) have no where to turn for assistance in guidance on what to do with their lives. They have no jobs or husbands to support them. Yes in an ideal world chastity is great. But some people don't live in an ideal world but a desparate one. And to bring a child into some of those environments would be reckless.

[TradicalRC]

Yes in an ideal world chastity is great. But some people don't live in an ideal world but a desparate one. And to bring a child into some of those environments would be reckless.

Christ did not talk as though chastity were an ideal. God knows that the world is not His ideal, but it was good enough to die for. He has made no demands beyond our capacity. You cannot fight evil with another evil.

[BipolarBob]

You cannot fight evil with another evil.

Some would think imposing your morality upon on another is evil in the sense of them thinking ahead of what dangers to a child in certain enviroments would bring and you not. Not everyone thinks contraception is evil. Not like abortion - where a life is already in existence. We have already went out and propagated and replenished the earth. Now we need to make it a better place to live. Not mindlessly reproducing with no thought of the consequences. I know you do not agree. So there we are. Have a good day. Cheers.

[Salvation]

I didn't realize there was a radio station like KBVM over there.

[trisham]

Praying to a saint, however, is a request for that saint to pray for us. It is no different than asking another living person to pray to God for you

*************

Exactly. Visit any of the "prayer request" threads and you will find plenty of Protestants participating. It's a wonderful thing.

[Salvation]

Great summary!

[Salvation]

**Some would think imposing your morality upon on another is evil.....**

The TRUTH is never evil!

Think about it.

The Bible tells us in Ephesians and the Gospel of Mark (among other souces) that man was made for woman and that their union would be holy in the sight of God.

This is not evil. Unfortunately, the modern world would have us believe otherwise. Have you fallen into the judgments of the modernists/secularlist?

[BipolarBob]

Have you fallen into the judgments of the modernists/secularlist?

Well, I hope not! There is nothing holy about prostitution or rape. That is unholy and to prevent a product of that un-holiness is very much up to the person(s) going to suffer from that. If a woman is in an unsafe enviroment and makes a choice to not bring a child into the world through contraceptive means, that is HER choice and it may be a humane one.

[Salvation]

I believe it is up to God, and not up to the people. Those babies could always be offered for adoption.

[Conservative til I die]

2. The celibacy of priests when the Apostles had families and there is no Biblical command to be such

I think this point needs addressing. When you say "families" are you referring to wives and children or just any familial tie? Because I do not believe that anywhere in the New Testament is it mentioned that the Apostles were married with the exception of St. Peter. And in his case, it is not clear from the Scriptures the disposition of his wife. Only his mother-in-law is mentioned. His wife is not mentioned directly. It is possible that she had died.

But even if she was living, that does not negate the Church's discipline (not doctrine) of clerical celibacy, since it does not hinge on Peter or any of the Apostles being married or not married.

It also does not hinge, since it is a discipline, on it being mandated in the New Testament.

Celibacy is a changeable discipline (and exceptions or dispensations are made even in the Latin Rite of the Church today)that is based on both the practical and the spiritual. It is practical to have celibate priests because of the 24/7 demands on a priest's time which may not be present for a Protestant minister. It is also spiritual in that celibacy represents imitation of Christ, who was also celibate and a devotion to God's work.

[Conservative til I die]

2. forbidding contraception methods in over-populated and impoverished places. Of course I am against abortion. I am also against starvation.

It does not logically follow that contraception leads to prosperity. Look at the world today. Contraception is accepted as normal, yet we still have the same old problems of poverty, famine, and starvation. Usually in the same old parts of the world.

This would lead me to believe that it's other things that cause these ills.

Conversely, America and much of the Western World is prosperous, with no issues of starvation or widespread poverty. This was true before and after contraception became acceptable. Again, this would lead one to believe that something else is the cause.

Let's put it this way: Give every African man and woman contraception and all other things being equal, the continent will still be a war-torn, disease-ridden cesspool just as it is today.

[Conservative til I die]

Good point. Unfortunately with the rapes and prostitution going on in impoverished countries some sort of means to prevent unwanted pregnacies may be warranted.

That's a cop-out argument. You're using extreme cases to justify abortion.

The problems of the Third World are not due to non-access to abortion, a rash of unwanted children due to rape or prostitution, or lack of contraceptives.

[BipolarBob]

I believe it is up to God, and not up to the people.

Well there we are. You (and your church) wish to impose judgment on these poor people who are absolutely desperate. They are impoverished and are in dire straits. I can't blame a woman to make a choice to not bring a baby into a dangerous situation. Not everyone (in every country) has access to an adoption center. And they may be afraid of what would happen to a child there anyways. We are responsible for our own actions.

[Conservative til I die]

Well, I hope not! There is nothing holy about prostitution or rape. That is unholy and to prevent a product of that un-holiness is very much up to the person(s) going to suffer from that. If a woman is in an unsafe enviroment and makes a choice to not bring a child into the world through contraceptive means, that is HER choice and it may be a humane one.

Your arguments on contraceptives as it relates to rape and prostitution is akin to fighting the evils of heroin addiction by giving clean needles to addicts.

[Conservative til I die]

Well there we are. You (and your church) wish to impose judgment on these poor people who are absolutely desperate.

This is rather condescending to the poor. As if they're noble savages to whom morality need not apply.

They are children of God and capable of making moral choices. Abortion and contraception is not moral to us prosperous Westerners, and it isn't to these people either.

Abortion and contraception will never pull up the Third World. The reason the Third World is what it is, is because of corrupt dictatorships, authentically savage notions of tribalism and sectarianism, war, lack of education, lack of a commercial structure, etc. Basically, it's because their whole system of doing things (businesswise, politically, religiously, etc.) is out of whack. The Judeo-Christian world has prospered because that system of life breeds success, compassion for others, tolerance, knowledge, reason, etc.

[BipolarBob]

the evils of heroin addiction by giving clean needles to addicts.

Well, giving clean needles to addicts will prevent the spread of AIDS and would be humane. But I suppose you would say that would be thwarting Gods will, eh?

[BipolarBob]

The reason the Third World is what it is, is because of corrupt dictatorships, authentically savage notions of tribalism and sectarianism, war, lack of education, lack of a commercial structure, etc. Basically, it's because their whole system of doing things (businesswise, politically, religiously, etc.) is out of whack.

We can agree on this it seems and not much else. Contraception is not the same as abortion, but you must follow the teachings of your church so you will disagree. Why continue this?

[Salvation]

**And they may be afraid of what would happen to a child there**

Then they are acting out of fear by choosing contraception or abortion and not out of love, which would be God's choice.

I do think you may have fallen into the secular pit of reasoning. May the Holy Spirit enlighten your logic.

[Salvation]

I just realized I had fallen into the pit of thwarting the main purpose of a thread and not sticking to the subject requested of sources for apologetics.

I will cease posting on this contraception/abortion theme.

Thank you, God, for taking me back to the Catholic Apologetics theme. My apologies.