Posted on 09/06/2006 6:05:01 AM PDT by Ottofire
JUSTIFICATION:
Vital Now & Always
by Michael S. Horton
© 1994, Modern Reformation Magazine, All Rights Reserved. Subscription Rate: $29 Per Year. Click here to subscribe or call 1-800-890-7556.
Throughout the Middle Ages, churchmen in the highest places of the Roman Church warned against a creeping Pelagianism, the 5th century heresy that denied grace. Medieval theologians attempted to reach a compromise between those on one hand who emphasized the bondage of the will and the believers sole dependence on grace and, on the other hand, those who emphasized the necessity of human cooperation in attaining salvation. A popular medieval slogan read, God will not deny his grace to those who do what lies within their power. When the average peasant or priest, however, placed his head on his pillow at night and entrusted his soul to Christs safe-keeping, pleading his cross, he was affirming the Gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone even though it was not articulated in such terms.
Even during the Reformation, the debate on the Roman side was so fluid that conferences were taking place with great frequency, attempting to achieve a common formula for understanding this classic biblical teaching. After all, it had been Romes best and brightest philologists and textual critics who, employing the Renaissance attitudes toward primary documents, had uncovered the corruptions in the translation of the Greek New Testament text in Jeromes Latin Vulgate. No less a Roman Catholic luminary than Erasmus of Rotterdam had pointed this out, even though he was often employed by Rome in its defense.
As this new learning, as it was called, brought to light the meaning of the original biblical texts, many of the leading Renaissance humanists felt compelled by the obvious evidence to join the Reformation. Even on the eve of the irreconcilable schism, at a conference at Regensburg in 1541, the emperor convened a council at which Roman Catholic, Lutheran, and Calvinist leaders agreed on a common formula for defining justification.
In spite of these advances, the pope repeatedly condemned the Reformers and issued edicts calling for their death. Although a number of leading churchmen begged the pope not to actually promulgate the Council of Trent in its condemnation of justification by grace alone through faith alone, they clearly did not win the day. The year of the Councils official promulgation by the pope -- 1564, signaled the end of Romes existence as a true visible church.
The Reformations critics will tell you that Luthers doctrine was the product of his own idiocyncratic piety. Fearful of losing his salvation over even the slightest sins, Luther's struggle with a holy God drove him to find things in Scripture that simply were not there. They will tell you that Luther's intense existential struggle over the question, How can I be right with God? is an individualistic emphasis that one does not find in church history. But what is that question we find more than any other question in the New Testament? How then can I be saved? What must I do to be saved? These things are written that you may know that you have eternal life. This is not just the struggle of an overly scrupulous German monk; it is the cry of the fallen human heart, sensing its estrangement from God.
The church that Luther and so many of his contemporaries found in their day was hardly acquainted with this existential dilemma. Referring to the schism of the 14th and 15th centuries, one scholar observes,
For nearly half a century, the Church was split into two or three obediences that excommunicated one another, so that every Catholic lived under excommunication by one pope or another, and, in the last analysis, no one could say with certainty which of the contenders had right on his side. The Church no longer offered certainty of salvation; she had become questionable in her whole objective form--the true Church, the true pledge of salvation, had to be sought outside the institution. It is against this background of a profoundly shaken ecclesial consciousness that we are to understand that Luther, in the conflict between his search for salvation and the tradition of the Church, ultimately came to experience the Church, not as the guarantor, but as the adversary of salvation.
I hope that the credibility of this historical assessment will not be called into question, as it comes to us from the pen of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the [former] head of the Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for the Church of Rome. (1)
Much more at the site ( http://www.modernreformation.org/mh94justvital.htm )
Which of course you figure means you...
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
You sure that's you??? I'm a Christian and the bible says that group of people is the enemy of the Gospel for my sake...
And why did you leave out the verse before it???
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Paul says don't be ignorant of the mystery...That's MYSTERY...
Israel has been blinded until, until, until the God is done with the Gentiles...He will then remove the blindfold from the REAL Israel and deal with them...
But, believe whatever you want...
So after all that, you believe that someone can be justified but not be saved?
Shirley, you jest...
Campion-That's nonsense, Harley.
I thought as much as well. I was told otherwise by Catholics. I still couldn't believe it so I went to new advent. Regrettably, I was wrong.
Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.
CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
It is a mismash of rubbish. It doesn't really believe in God's grace but simply working your way to heaven. But you're comfortable where you're at so have at it.
That's not true, but a misrepresentation of Catholicism as you see it. Do all Protestants throw out the book of St. James so that they can justify faith alone? Do you disregard St. Matthew 25?
I guess you didn't bother to read what you found there?
Right at the top of the article you link is a quotation from the Council of Trent:
Him God had proposed as a propitiator, through faith in His blood (Romans 3:25), for our sins, and not for our sins only, but also for those of the whole world (I John ii, 2).
"Propitiator" is one who propitiates. To "propitiate" is to turn aside wrath or appease. Christ propitiates. Through faith. Through His blood. For our sins, and not for our sins only, but also for those of the whole world.
No mention of Christ dying as a substitute for us, for our sins? How come you can't find it at all, and I can find it in the second paragraph?
I feel the same way about the Westminster Confession, but I usually make an effort to be polite about it.
Now, then. It's really quite simple.
My Harley, that was a long article at that link, but really very interesting and informing! Your post was worded to perfection by the way! :-)
Obviously you and Campion have different views on justification...Does your church teach two different doctrines???
Don't all Christians, if they do what we are supposed to anyway, do good works whether or not we think we are justified by faith, or by faith and works? Does it really matter so much what we think, or is it more important what we DO?
No. What I was replying to is that there the article posted did not reveal ALL of the Council of Trent as to faith and works. It was misleading in that it led one to believe that the Church was only promoting justification by works and not by faith and works.
What do you do with St. James? Why won't anyone who is Protestant answer me on this?
"Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" St. James 2:24
"For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead."St. James 2:26
Catholic Catechism:
1814 Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith "man freely commits his entire self to God."78 For this reason the believer seeks to know and do God's will. "The righteous shall live by faith." Living faith "work[s] through charity."79
1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it.80 But "faith apart from works is dead":81 when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.
There's your answer as to our doctrines.
We do? It must not be as obvious as you think, because neither of us can see it. :-)
FJ290 asked a very worthwhile question. If works have nothing to do with justification -- notice, please, that I said works strengthen justification, though they cannot earn it in the first place -- then what do you do with James chapter 2?
Luther, bless his heart, said at one point that the right thing to do with "Jimmy" was to throw him in the fire. Old Martin did have a certain blunt consistency about him. ;-)
I think it is important what we do.
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."
For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass.
For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was.
I've met some Christians that think if they lift one finger to help someone they might be accused of acting out a "works" salvation. I've met some that think they don't have to do anything since they feel Jesus did it all on the Cross and that doing any good work is not required.
How do you feel about it? Do you feel that it's important to help others and practice the works of charity Jesus told us to or not?
Yeah..uh.. I don't see that we have different views at all. We're saying the same thing except worded differently.
Although I was raised in a denomination that believes justification by faith alone, I personally believe yes, we most certainly are commanded to help others, and to show Christian love to others.
To me it is very clear in the scriptures, but the problem may stem from some who don't really read the Bible for themselves. Too many people just accept whatever they are taught without checking it out in the word of God. Sad about the people you mentioned in your post. I can't understand thinking like that!
That's good. You struck me as the kind of person that liked to help others.
To me it is very clear in the scriptures, but the problem may stem from some who don't really read the Bible for themselves. Too many people just accept whatever they are taught without checking it out in the word of God. Sad about the people you mentioned in your post. I can't understand thinking like that!
Yes, it's sad. I don't understand it either, but there are those who feel that way. Most unfortunate.
I haven't met any of these but if you say they're out there, I believe you...
As far as acting out a works-salvation, the non-Catholics that I run with don't have that problem because the salvation thing is a one time deal...When it done, it's done...And then there is no conflict with good works...
Thanks for that at least.
As far as acting out a works-salvation, the non-Catholics that I run with don't have that problem because the salvation thing is a one time deal...When it done, it's done...And then there is no conflict with good works...
See.. I don't think we are really that far apart. I think it is more of a communication breakdown. Let me ask you this, do you accept what St. James says that faith without works is dead?
A lot of Protestants haven't figured this out either...They just think the bible contradicts itself...
Mat. 25:32 is a judgement of Nations, at the end of the Tribulation (Joel 3:2,12,14)...The people of the Nations are likened to sheep and goats...And their judgement is based on feeding and clothing God's brethren; visiting His brethren in prison...The brethren are Jews in the Tribulation...The sheep are folks saved by faith and works...
This is not the last judgement...Heaven and Earth has not passed away...At the last judgement, the unsaved dead are judged...In the last judgement, the criterion is your name being in the book of life...Here, the criterion is works towards someone...In the last judgement, no one inherits a kingdom...Here, they do...
The sheep are not saved people from this age since we are saved by faith alone...(Eph. 2:8-10, John 3:36; 5:24)...
The sheep are not saved people from this age, for saved people in this age became sinless angels at the first resurrection (Mat. 22:30) and are found with Christ at this judgement...(Mat. 25:31,32)They are not being judged by Him (Dan. 7:8-11)...
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
No one in the chapter mentions rejecting Christ, or rejecting the Gospel...The lost are not condemned until the 2nd coming of Christ...Yet, everyone of the lost is condemned already...And not for not ministering to the brethren...
The THRONE OF HIS GLORY is the Throne of King David...It's a physical throne on earth...(Mat. 19:28; Jer. 14:21; Psa. 102:16; Luke 1:32)...
And just prior to this judgement there's going to be a little war...(Joel 3:9-15)...
James chapter 2 falls in with Mat. chapters 24,25...James was written primarily to Jews during the Tribulation that will require faith, and works for salvation...The Christians saved by faith alone are gone...They will show up with Christ to judge the 12 Tribes of Israel and the Gentile Nations...Christ will sit on the Throne of David, in Jerusalem, for a thousand years...And then, the White Throne Judgment...
That's what I do with James chapter 2...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.