Posted on 08/27/2006 3:53:25 PM PDT by sionnsar
I just learned of the release of the two kidnapped reporters, Steven Centanni Olaf Wiig, in Gaza. We thank God for their release and safety. They reported that they were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint and they complied.
The implications of this are profound. A Christian who says any statement against Christ (be it coerced or not) has committed the sin of apostasy. "But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." Matt 10:33.
The Chronicles of the first 500 years of Christianity testify that this was the gravest sin known to man, far worse than sodomy, adultery, murder, etc. because it is a direct act of blasphemy against Christ. It is forgivable, but it is the worst sin because one denies the very channel and mode of forgiveness and salvation, that is Christ Himself.
But my worries are that most Western Christians see no problem with this. "Oh, they didn't really mean it. They were a gunpoint!" All the early martyrs were at "gunpoint," and they refused to speak against Christ, affirm the gods, or confess Caesar as "Lord." St Paul could have "tricked" his persecutors and continued to evangelize the world by getting out of jail free if he had just said to Nero (if even he didn't mean it in his heart), "Yeah, yeah, Nero. You are the Lord. I won't be a Christian anymore." But St Paul did not do this. He refused to act or speak against Christ and instead he bore his neck and allowed his head to be cut off for the glory of Christ. And his witness was magnified.
Everything we do matters. Every single thing and our witness to the world, our evangelism, depends on our steadfast testimony to Christ at all times in all places. If the Muslim sees that we are not willing to die for Christ they will not see that Christ is worth living for.
Every single thing and our witness to the world, our evangelism, depends on our steadfast testimony to Christ at all times in all places. If the Muslim sees that we are not willing to die for Christ they will not see that Christ is worth living for.
I agree that any sin by the believer will probably be seen by a unbeliever as a justification for his thinking, but there are many ways for any unbeliever to come to a simple faith in Christ.
If a believer perseveres in his willpower simply because he thinks another man's salvation depends upon him, then the believer himself is falling into a form of arrogance and places himself before God. I don't deny we are to perform good works through Him, even when it appears we are losing a worldly or fleshly battle, if we persevere through Him, our rewards might be in heaven rather than here, but one is also able to slip out of faith if we become morally degenerate, placing our willpower before faith in Him.
Hmmm, not between the Ascension and Pentecost, unless the Father.
Doubtless they had their fingers crossed when they embraced Islam. If it meant life-or-death, I would.
Crikey.
I just thought that islam and Christ were mutually exclusive. Like I said, I would hope to have the courage to have my head hacked off than even pay lip service to a false ideology.
> Like I said, I would hope to have the courage to have my head hacked off than even pay lip service to a false ideology.
Nawwww... cross your fingers and kissitupta God. No point joining the Heavenly Host prematurely: not while there's still plenty evil to fight and wrongs yet to be righted and Heathen to be converted or smitten and evildoers to be defeated.
That's why we Christians invented crossing-our-fingers anyrate. Just like we invented Casuistry.
Christian Soldiers have a Divine duty to escape and rejoin their unit at the earliest possible opportunity.
Christian Soldier ping
not my way, but thanks for the suggestion
This sounds like a sin to me, and this was said long before the Crucifixion.
Matthew 15-17 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Peter knew exactly who Jesus was. It was revealed to him by God Himself. Yet he still denied Him three times.
> This sounds like a sin to me, and this was said long before the Crucifixion.
As the saying goes, "he who fights and runs away shall live to fight another day."
As did St Peter. As did these journalists, or so it seems. No shame there (particularly if they crossed their fingers first) and more the fool the militant muslim terrorists for being deceived by "the old cross-your-fingers-and-convert-to-Islam" trick.
"I just thought that islam and Christ were mutually exclusive."
Not even close to being mutually exclusive.
>>"I just thought that islam and Christ were mutually exclusive."
> Not even close to being mutually exclusive.
FRiend, it is true: Islam and Christ are not mutually exclusive because Islam acknowledges Our Lord as a mere prophet, something less than Mohammad.
But the opposite is not true. Christ Our Lord and Islam are most certainly mutually exclusive, because Christ does not acknowledge Mohammad in any capacity whatsoever. And neither will any Christian, except as a sinner and a heathen whose Salvation is to be prayed for.
The way forward for Islam is clear: Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins, or be damn'ed in this life and the next.
I was on another, similar thread yesterday: Christian Martyrs: A Very Long Legacy.
And we know that all things work together for good
to those who love God,
to those who are the called
according to His purpose.
~Romans 8:28
I know that Peter is among your favorite witnesses to Christ in the New Testament, dear DieHard. I was just reading from his 2 letters this morning:
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
~2 Peter 3:10-18
Good on you for your post.
And, based on history, I can't find one word in it that should get you booted off FR.
Apparently not much.
That was excellent.
Amen.
As the saying goes, "a coward dies many deaths, the brave die but once." I could not live knowing that I lacked the courage to show my faith in the face of worldly death. These two "Christians" shrank at the opportunity to demonstrate their faith, and possibly touch the hearts of their captors with the spirit of Christ.
It's a mistake to think that forced conversions are a normal Muslim practice. Mohammed put a stop to it for the "people of the book" and later the Zoarastians. The modern practice is a bastardization of the religion by those who want war.
I am sure they are not running to "Friday night prayers".
Feel free to go into the den of radical Islamists and be martyred. They would be very happy to have all of our heads - Christian and Jewish - to put on their disgusting videos which they show on Al Jazeera. We defeat them by STAYING ALIVE to proclaim the truth - not by dying. Let them die for their "faith" - while we live.
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