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To: George W. Bush
* I found what I was looking for. Supercessionism is a form of the old Marcionite heresy

Mark Shea... A Jewish commenter makes the common mistake of confusing Marcionism with Catholic teaching. Not surprising since so many Catholics do too. Supersessionism and the idea that the Old Testament is somehow revoked by the New is a big no-no in Catholic teaching. "They are Israelites, and to them belong [note present tense] the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race according to the flesh, is the Christ" (Rom. 9:4-5). The New Covenant (a term the apostles get from the lips of Jesus himself, who in turn consciously borrows from Jeremiah 31:31-34) does not abolish but fulfills the Old. Yes, there are aspects of Old Testament ritual and ceremony which are, from the Catholic perspective, no longer necessary since the Reality who is Christ has come (a moot point for most Christians anyway since they are Gentiles). The epistle to the Hebrews (and Romans and Galatians) are about this. But it is Marcion, not Christianity, who took the term "Old Testament" to mean "obsolete testament". The Christian picture is found instead in the image of the wild olive branch grafted onto the cultivated tree. Paul's warning to supercessionists is grave: You do not support the root, the root supports you. (Romans 11)

186 posted on 08/11/2006 10:55:34 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic; George W. Bush
I found what I was looking for. Supercessionism is a form of the old Marcionite heresy ~~ Mark Shea... A Jewish commenter makes the common mistake of confusing Marcionism with Catholic teaching. Not surprising since so many Catholics do too. Supersessionism and the idea that the Old Testament is somehow revoked by the New is a big no-no in Catholic teaching.

You're dead wrong, and "Mark Shea" (some amateur with a blog -- certainly not one of the front line of modern Roman Catholic apologists, whoever he is) doesn't have a fig-leaf of a clue what he's talking about.

Marcionism is the ancient and evil heresy which proposed "Two Gods", the "Predestinating God" of the Old Testament versus the "Free Will Jesus" of the New Testament ~~ "that the G-d of the New Testament was only only 'a God of love'; completely 'non-judgmental'; therefore totally different from the God of the Old Testament, which he called the god of the Jews.... He also completely rejected the early Assemblies teachings concerning the Doctrines of Predestination and Election as found in Ephesians 1:4-15; John 1:12,13; John 6:44; Acts 13:48. This was how Marcion ridded himself of the Doctrines of Election and Predestination which could not be denied from Old Testament Scripture.(http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3511/marcion.html)

Personally, "bornacatholic", I would say that in your hatred for the doctrines of Absolute Predestination and your own willingness to allow for an Unbiblical division between the Old Testament Church (Israel) and the New Testament Church (God's Israel), you're far closer to the evil heresy of Marcionism than any Calvinist.


HERE IS THE TRUTH -- Courtesy of Robert A. Sungenis of Catholic Apologetics International, a REAL Catholic Scholar, not some pissant with a blog (like most modern front-line Catholic Apologists, Sungenis is an ex-Presbyterian -- i.e., he's not stupid):

Full Article here: Judaizers in the Catholic Church, http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/judaizers.htm, Robert A. Sungenis.


So... Let me repeat that:

(Sigh). As usual, even "bornacatholic" Cradle Catholics are so woefully uneducated regarding the Faith Once For All Delivered To The Saints, you call it "worshipping a God of Hate" when a Calvinist simply defends the Traditional, Patristic Beliefs of the Universal Christian Church.

Oh, well. As Roman Catholics continue to drop the standards of Biblical, traditional, patristic Christian Belief and flee the battlefields, have no fear -- we Calvinists will take up the slack.

Of course, we're always expected to do so. But it's okay, we shan't complain.

Best, OP

226 posted on 08/13/2006 8:13:07 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty -- Luke 17:10)
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To: bornacatholic

The position of the Discipiles of Christ and the Churches of Christ is also that the OT has been superceded by the NT. This antinomianism is heresy. Christ Himself said that He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He did that on the Cross, which is why we no longer have to bring a lamb to a priest in order to sacrifice it for our sins. There are sections of the Law that were designed to be temporary (Camping and Marching Regulations) or were meant to be specific to the administration of the community (Civil Law). The Ritual Law has been fulfilled in Christ. The Moral Law is yet in force.


401 posted on 08/25/2006 11:45:29 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (Islam is a despotism so vile that it would warm the heart of Orwell's Big Brother)
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