Posted on 08/10/2006 12:22:56 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
A Young Fool encounters Foolishness
Once upon a time, I was but a wee child in Reformed Theology, taking my first baby-steps into the beautiful Cathedral of Calvinism as a young Debater for Jerry Falwell's world-beating Liberty Debate Team (Our Creed: "Defeat Harvard. Defeat Navy. Defeat American Catholic. Defeat everyone. Crush them all, every time, no exceptions. Win every single National Championship, every year.... because as long as we Calvinists keep winning, Jerry won't excommunicate us for being Calvinists!!".)
Since a Debater is always expected to be able to immediately argue either side of any given question, I spent a lot of time in the local used book-store picking up various books on philosophy and theology and politics and economics... anything I could get my dirt-poor hands on for $2 or $3 dollars a copy. Anything to familiarize myself with multiple intellectual perspectives and multiple modes of argumentation.
Now, in the course of my researches, I happened across a little book entitled War Cycles, Peace Cycles by Richard Kelly Hoskins of Lynchburg, Virginia, regarding the short and long-term economic effects of Monetary Expansions and Contractions in the context of fractional-reserve lending. Hoskins was by no means an uneducated fellow (a capable Financial Advisor and Econometricist, some of his works are still occasionally cited today), but I was singularly disturbed by several passages in which he seemed to suggest a Racial component to Fractional-Reserve Lending (which he called "the Babylon System") versus his contrary suggestions for Joint-Venture Lending.
One passage which stood out in my mind read as follows:
The further I read, the more it was apparent to me that Hoskins regarded "Israel" as The White Race, the Adamic Race descended through Abraham, and that all Non-Whites were considered to him to be zuwr "strangers": Pagans at worst, "Samaritan" Christians at best... but never "Israel".
And so, being the young fool that I was, I did what any young fool would do... I looked Dick Hoskins up in the Lynchburg, Virginia phone book, and called him at his house.
I asked him what he would make of my spiritual position -- a Confessing Christian by Faith, mostly Prussian German by Ethnicity, but with a little 1/16 smidgen of Sioux Nation mixed in 3 or 4 generations back on my mother's side.
Hoskins informed me, quite cordially and without any rancor whatsoever, that God considered me to be a mixed-breed Bastard and that "A Bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 23:2) He advised me to marry "one of my own kind".
Well, I decided at that point (even before I knew him to be the godfather of the "Phinehas Priesthood", the most violent expression of the Christian Identity movement) that even if he was a good money-runner, Dick Hoskins' theology was a barrel full of wet, smelly, foolish Scheißdreck, with which I would have no truck whatsoever. The Christian Creed is this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28, KJV).
Unfortunately, however, "Christian Identity" (derived not from pagan Nazism but rather from its bastard godfather, British Israelism) is not the only theology which Racially divides the Body of Christ into Jew and Gentile, "Israel" and "Not-Israel", Blood and Blood-lines.
Dispensational Zionist Foolishness
The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium. As such it re-introduces the distinction between Jew and Gentile and replaces Faith with Race as a basis for divine favor. Consider the following citations from leading dispensationalists: (DISPENSATIONAL DISTORTIONS PART TWO, Redemptive History Distortions ~~ Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Th.D.)
However, with the establishment of the New Testament phase of the Church, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been abolished. This was the whole point of Peter's vision of the sheet filled with unclean animals in Acts 10: "What God has called clean, let no man call unclean." Thus, there is no separate Jewish program exalting them over saved Gentiles. THE CHURCH, which includes Jew and Gentile in one body, is the fruition and culmination of God's promises to the Jews. In evidence of this, we should note that Christians are called by distinctively Jewish names in the New Testament. "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:29). Christians are called "the circumcision" (Phil. 3:3), "the children" and "the seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:7, 29), the "Jerusalem which is above" and the "children of the promise" (Gal. 4:24-29). In fact, Christians compose "the Israel of God" for we are a "new creature" regarding which "circumcision availeth nothing" (Gal. 6:16).
Comparing Foolishness with Foolishness
In closing, I ask only (according to the Hebrew logical-interpretive method of "how much the more?")... if the heretical British-Israel/Christian-Identity Racialists pervert True Christianity by dividing the People of God along Racial lines, then how much the more do Dispensationalists also pervert the Word of God and divide the People of God along equally Racialist lines?
Consider the following:
Those aren't Quotations from Richard Kelly Hoskins... granted, they may sound like Christian Identity quotations, but they aren't.
These are nothing less than direct quotations from the leading lights of Dispensationalism in America -- Ryrie, Pentecost, Walvoord, Hoyt, Hunt, Thomas Ice. (I could've quoted Hagee, I suppose, but the man is absolutely freakin' nutbar).
All that I did was to replace "Israel" with "The White Race", and replace "Gentiles" with "Non-Whites".
Does Dispensationalist "theology" destroy the Racial equality of the Body of Christ? What you see is what you get.
God Damn all Racial Theology.
The position of the Discipiles of Christ and the Churches of Christ is also that the OT has been superceded by the NT. This antinomianism is heresy. Christ Himself said that He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He did that on the Cross, which is why we no longer have to bring a lamb to a priest in order to sacrifice it for our sins. There are sections of the Law that were designed to be temporary (Camping and Marching Regulations) or were meant to be specific to the administration of the community (Civil Law). The Ritual Law has been fulfilled in Christ. The Moral Law is yet in force.
What you are teaching is the Gospel According to OP According to his interpretation of John Calvin. Since Scripture is the the only authority, I say your Gospel based on a shakey foundation.
I've often heard that Israel is the church, but lately there have been things written that oppose that theory. It MAY not be true, OP, regardless of what any of us believe or want to believe. I can be pretty stubborn on some beliefs myself but I am learning every day that I DON'T know it all and I cannot read the mind of God. Insulting FReepers who are Christian believers is NOT of God either. Please be respectful of other points of view that may not agree with you.
Yes.
Galatians 6:16 is a cryptic reference to an "Israel of God."
It's not bloody "cryptic", Jude.
Paul prefaces his Benediction to "The Israel of God" by declaring that, under the Cross of Christ, the entire world is crucified to Saint Paul, and that Saint Paul is crucified to the entire world; and that neither Circumcision (Jews) nor Uncircumcision (Gentiles) counts for anything, but only the New Creature (i.e., the Regenerate Christian, of whatever ethnicity).
Good grief. About the only way that Saint Paul could make Galatians 6:16 any less "cryptic" would be if he were to climb up on the shoulders of the Elders of the First-Century Church, beat them liberally about the head with his sandals, and scream in their ears: "HELLO! You Christians, you're the Israel of God, get it? Jews, Gentiles, All of you... The Christian Church is God's Israel!! (WAM!) (WAM!) WAM!)... Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to leave bruises -- but are you getting it yet? The Christian Church, All of you, no matter Race or Ethnicity, is GOD'S ISRAEL!!
By logical inference from the surrounding context, I completely agree with you (6:15 discusses about how the ritual of circumcision and the state of uncircumcision are irrelevant),
Of course. It's Logically inferred from the Text itself, the surrounding context, the tone and direction of Paul's Discourse -- the Argument is Logically Correct. There's nothing wrong with supporting a Logically-Correct Argument.
but it's overstating the case by a lot to say "Galatians 6:16 [makes it] Biblically-Mandatory that you believe that God's "Israel" in Prophecy = "THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH."
No, it isn't. "The New Testament is in the Old concealed, the Old Testament is in the New revealed". Surely you have already encountered this Rule of Reformed Interpretation.
If the New Testament establishes the Christian Church as "God's Israel", then it is appropriate to read that understanding back into Old Testament "Last Days" Prophecies concerning "Israel" in order to attain proper understanding.
"The Old Testament is in the New revealed".
The Church is God's Israel.
'Nuff Said.
LOL. Bruises heal. But bad theology really can leave a mark. 8~)
Frankly, these discussions on the meaning of "God's Israel" have been eye-opening for me. I had no idea so many Christians did not understand Paul when he wrote...
"For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." -- Romans 9:6
And later Paul declares...
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." -- Romans 11:26-27
Doesn't this clearly say the Jews will be saved exactly the same way Gentiles are saved -- by believing in Christ who delivers us from our sins?
As my husband says, a real understanding of history must first begin with a timeline. The dispensational bent was created to achieve a political goal and some Christians have gone along with it.
But it's the antithesis of God's revelation in Scripture.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." -- Galatians 3:28
We are called to be blind to race and blood and skin color and all other distinctions except one -- Christ within us.
Well, the Arminian pseudo-"Protestants" and their Romanist allies will never miss the opportunity to commit the Sin of Slander against the good person of Saint John Calvin, now, will you?
Historically, of course, the fact of the matter is that Saint John Calvin was quite considerate and accomodating towards the Jews in his day, compared to the hateful Anti-Jewish vitriol of the Roman Catholics and the Non-Calvinist Protestants. But of course the Facts do not concern you... your obsessive desire, your emotional lodestone, is to cast aspersions upon the Christian Doctrine of Predestination -- and Saint John Calvin stands in your way, like the Archangel Uriel denying Fallen Man re-entry into Eden, with the harsh edge of his fiery sword.
I am, of course, NOT quoting John Calvin.
You could have checked my own citations to note that I am, in fact, quoting Saint Augustine: who is acknowledged by Romanists, Orthodox, and Protestants alike as the First Doctor of the Christian Church -- In other words, the only Saint whom all Christians everywhere universally agree was the greatest Theologian since the Apostles. But, please, go on getting jiggy with your bad self... I believe you were Bearing False Witness against John Calvin; please do continue.
That you would drag such a statement out is reprehensible. According to the logic (rather illogic) of it, Jesus Himself and His Apostles would be damned, since they faithfully kept those 'baneful and deadly ceremonies.' I suggest you search diligently for the rock you crawled out from under and cover yourself with it for a very long time.
Jesus Christ completed, fulfilled, and abolished the Ceremonies of the Jews; and His Apostles acting according to the Holy Spirit replaced the old and out-moded Rites of Circumcision and Seder with the New Covenant Sacraments of Baptism and Lord's Supper, which are (according to Jesus' Binding of the Strong Man, Matthew 12) freely offered to All Peoples regardless of Race or Ethnicity, and declared in the Epistle to the Galatians (Gal. 3:28) that henceforth any ideology which proposed any Racial Division of the Body of Christ whatsoever was Heretical, and Damned by God.
As I have said from the beginning of my Article -- if the statements which I have quoted were made by "Christian Identity" Pastors speaking of "The White Race", no Good-Faith Christian would have any problem whatsoever acknowledging such "Theology" to be Evil, Ugly, Heretical, and Just Plain Wrong.
The fact that these statements are, in fact, quoted from Dispensationalists, regarding a different Ethnic Group -- does not change the fact that the "Theology" of the Dispensationalists is Evil, Ugly, Heretical, and Just Plain Wrong.
Best, OP
Amen, OP.
"Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another" -- Romans 12:10
And may that number grow, as God wills.
I don't know who wrote it, but by "ceremonies of the Jews" that person could have in mind the ceremonies of rabbinical Judaism, not the old covenant law as practiced by Jesus and His Jewish disciples.
Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christ, expressed much the same idea when he wrote, "He who has thirsted and quenched his thirst at the living fount of Christ's Teaching, can never again stoop to seek drink at the broken cisterns of Rabbinism." (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah )
Once can hardly call Edersheim an anti-Semite.
Some people just aren't paying enough attention.
"The general reader is here at a double disadvantage. From his upbringing in an atmosphere which Christ's Words have filled with heaven's music, he knows not, and cannot know, the nameless feeling which steals over a receptive soul when, in the silence of our moral wilderness, those voices first break on the ear, that had never before been wakened to them. How they hold the soul entranced, calling up echoes of inmost yet unrealised aspiration, itself the outcome of the God-born and God-tending within us, and which renders us capable of new birth into the Kingdom; call up, also, visions and longings of that world of heavenly song, so far away and yet so near us; and fill the soul with subduedness, expectancy, and ecstasy!
Of course, you are quite welcome.
I did mean what I said, when I said that an unwillingness to self-critically evaluate an opposing perspective (which is what I get from you, A-G; perhaps I am wrong) is an obstacle of Pride which prevents Learning. As one who has personally experienced deliverence from the Disensationalist/Pre-Trib/Pre-Mill Prophecy Complex, I know how easy it can be to fall into the trap of thinking that "you've already got it figured out". I've been there, done that, read all the books, know it like the back of my hand.
And I must confess that I got the same Prideful sense of "Already Got It All Figgered Out" from you, in your #306, when you didn't even bother to address the central point of my Argument (See, I agree that God will fulfill all His Promises to Israel. The Question is, "Who is God's Israel"?)
To your credit, however, you have been a very good sport in receiving my criticisms -- much better, in fact, than some of your Would-Be Defenders.
I can applaud that, at least.
Perhaps our disagreement here is related to differences between our underlying foundations? ~~ AG
Um... yeah. That's sorta my whole point, yes.
Please understand that I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men – whether the Pope, Calvin, Arminius, Joseph Smith, Billy Graham, etc.
2.) And in the Second Place -- How Dare You?! Such an Antinomian-Individualist Perspective makes an absolute mockery of Jesus Christ's Institution of The Church as a Collective Family, and as a counter-cultural Revolutionary Army, trained and regulated by His Under-Shepherds, the Presbytery and Diaconate. How Dare You cast aside the teachings of 2,000 years worth of Christian Pastors, as if they were so much irrelevant Pagan Sanskrit? If that is your attitude towards the Magisterial Teachings of the Church Fathers, why even bother to Take Notes when your own Local Pastor is preaching a Sermon? Heck, why bother attending a Sermon at all?
The fact of the matter is this, Alamo-Girl -- you are influenced by everything you have ever read or heard in any way since you were a very little girl, and you ARE CHOOSING to remain un-critically beholden to the Disensationalist/Pre-Trib/Pre-Mill Prophecy Complex without giving any serious consideration whatsoever to the proper Biblical Alternative (which is why you say, "All of the above is just for the record – I do not wish to argue it further"; and as I say, I think that such close-mindedness is Intellectually Prideful. Just My Opinion, of course).
In closing, I will not seek "to argue it further" either, if that is your preference.
I am always willing to go head to head, Iron sharpening Iron, for the sake of Learning God's Word.
But, if that is not your desire -- hey, I'm a Calvinist. I don't believe that I can force these things.
Best, OP
Right. On. The. Money.
Best, OP
They hate John Calvin. No matter what, they'll bring it up. It's their "Religion".
It doesn't even matter WHAT we're discussing -- on a Personal, Un-Christian basis, they despise John Calvin.
What a bunch of ungodly Haters.
"LOL. Bruises heal. But bad theology really can leave a mark. 8~"
Although I don't follow a rigid Dispensational view, this is a good representation of "the Israel of God" as the believing Jews, not the entire church.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm
Anyone who is truly interested in this subject should apply this test:
1. Open your bible to Romans chapters 9 through 11.
2. Take the word "Israel" and replace it with the word "Church."
3. You will know when it gets totally absurd.
Thanks for the link. I think Middletown Bible Church looks like a good representation of an "independent" church lacking structural authority which thus permits it to careen into unScriptural waters, i.e. dispensationalism.
Regardless that some try to clothe the dispensational view in scarlet, it's politics. Period.
I think it's telling that at the bottom of the page the following link is found..."More Articles Under PROBLEMS WITH REFORMED THEOLOGY," which sends one back to the church's HomePage where the link originates.
All the "land of Israel" citations in the world do not change the fact that "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."
Politics does not make sound theology.
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." -- Romans 11:26-27 "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." -- Romans 9:6
And for good measure...
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." -- Galatians 3:28
One path. One Christ. One faith in Him who paid for our sins with His blood, the only blood that means anything.
AMEN! Van Til is right again!!!
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