Posted on 08/07/2006 6:18:10 AM PDT by topcat54
David Brog has written Standing with Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. The ten reviews I read on Amazon were quite favorable, and it is being advertised on WorldNetDaily. The fact that the Foreword was written by John Hagee, author of Jerusalem Countdown, From Daniel to Doomsday, Beginning of the End, and Final Dawn over Jerusalem, is a clear indication that the book’s thesis fits with the modern-day prophetic system known as dispensational premillennialism. I doubt that the book covers what this article reveals.
In my debate with Tommy Ice at American Vision’s Worldview Super Conference (May 26, 2006), Ice pointed out that one of the unique features of the dispensational system is that near the end of a future, post-rapture, seven-year tribulation period, Israel will be rescued by God. After nearly 2000 years of delayed promises, God will once again come to the rescue of His favored nation. Ice and other dispensationalists imply by this doctrine that they are Israel’s best friend, and anyone who does not adopt their way of interpreting the Bible is either anti-Semitic (Hal Lindsey) or a methodological naturalist (Tommy Ice).
In the debate, I wanted Tommy to explain how a belief in Israel’s glorious future results in the slaughter of two-thirds of the Jews living at the time the Great Tribulation nears the end of its seven-year run. I quoted the following dispensational writers to show that there is no glorious future for “all Jews who are under siege,” to use Tommy’s words, in the dispensational version of the Great Tribulation.
There are geopolitical implications to the dispensational system that some people have picked up on.
Dispensational theology as it relates to Israel is alarming to some Jewish leaders as well. Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, asks, “To what extent will a theological view that calls for Armageddon in the Middle East lead [evangelicals] to support policies that may move in that direction, rather than toward stability and peaceful coexistence?”(2) The most probable scenario is that prophetic futurists will sit back and do nothing as they see Israel go up in smoke since the Bible predicts an inevitable holocaust. It is time to recognize that these so-called end-time biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, and Zechariah 13:7–9 is certainly one of them. Those Jews living in Judea prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and who fled before the assault on the temple were saved (Matt. 24:15–22).Convinced that a nuclear Armageddon is an inevitable event within the divine scheme of things, many evangelical dispensationalists have committed themselves to a course for Israel that, by their own admission, will lead directly to a holocaust indescribably more savage and widespread than any vision of carnage that could have generated in Adolf Hitler’s criminal mind.(1)
1. Grace Halsell, Prophecy and Politics: Militant Evangelists on the Road to Nuclear War (Westport, CT: Lawrence Hill & Co., 1986), 195.
2. Quoted in Jeffery L. Sheler, “Odd Bedfellows,” U.S. News & World Report (August 12, 2002), 35.
Gary DeMar is president of American Vision and the author of more than 20 books. His latest is Myths, Lies, and Half Truths.
Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.
Will we be ready when Islam and Zionism are both discredited to bring the gospel of peace former Muslims and Jews?
Very interesting read!
“The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: ‘And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried’ (Zechariah 13:8, 9).
The prophecy states that the 1/3 that are left in the land will be refined. It does not say that the 1/3 that leave will be refined. The refining will take place in the land. This prophecy has not be fulfilled. And for all those who think the Christians are hoping for the Jews to return to Israel so that God can kill them off, I believe that the Bible states clearly that 2/3 of everyone on earth will be killed during the tribulation, so whether or not you are in Israel is irrelevant. God's wrath will reach out to everyone equally.
Don't you tire of posting these eschatological threads?
Note, he said fled from the assault. They fled from Jerusalem and went into the hills of Israel as Christ had warned (Matt. 24:16; Luke 21:21). However, they remained in the land of Judea for the most part.
But thanks for taking interest.
I believe that the Bible states clearly that 2/3 of everyone on earth will be killed during the tribulation, so whether or not you are in Israel is irrelevant.
But the Bible doesn't teach that. The Bible does make specific reference to 2/3 of those in the land.
So, tell us plainly, do you believe that 2/3 of the Jews (God's chosen people??) living in Israel during your soon-to-be "great tribulation" will be killed, while the Christians get to avoid the conflict by being "raptured" out beforehand?
I'm not sure if it is 2/3 of the Jews in particular or 2/3 of the inhabitants of the land in General.
The Bible does make specific reference to 2/3 of those in the land.
I believe the prophecy deals with the inhabitants of the land, does it not? FWIW, the promised land extends from the mediterranian sea to the Euphrates river, north to Damascus and South to the Nile.
I suspect that God could kill off 2/3 of the inhabitants of the land described as the land of Israel in the Bible and not kill off a single Jew (or Christian).
Does LaHaye tire of writing those silly novels? Does Lindsey tire of rewriting old bad eschatology books into new bad eschatology books? Does Van Impe tire of yet another TV show on the same subject?
As long as dispensationalism is around duping folks, there is place for such postings.
"Many Bible students in recent years tried to fit the events of World War I and II to the prophetic signs which would herald the imminent return of Christ. Their failure discredited prophecy." (Hal Lindsey, The Late, Great Planet Earth, [1970], p. 43.)
Hal's still around after his bout with discrediting prophecy. For Hal, 36 years ago, it was the "Cold War" scenario. The modern crop of pop prophecy preachers are no different.
At least they get paid for their efforts.
As long as dispensationalism is around duping folks, there is place for such postings.
Do you go to church on Sunday?
"Many Bible students in recent years tried to fit the events of World War I and II to the prophetic signs which would herald the imminent return of Christ. Their failure discredited prophecy." (Hal Lindsey, The Late, Great Planet Earth, [1970], p. 43.)
Personally I do believe that WWII was a portend to the great tribulation. It turns out that it was also the launching pad for the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel.
Hal's still around after his bout with discrediting prophecy. For Hal, 36 years ago, it was the "Cold War" scenario. The modern crop of pop prophecy preachers are no different.
Quite frankly Hal's methods of looking at the newspaper to determine the date that Jesus will come back is not any different than your looking at the history of Josephus to determine that Jesus returned in 70AD. You are both using extrabiblical non-scriptural secular reporters to prove your point.
FWIW, I love eschatology threads (at least when all participants are behaving themselves). Eschatology and it's impact on present behavior is IMO one of the most fascinating aspects of Christianity. Post as many threads as you want!
Is that what it literally says? Why are you so reluctant to say what many of your dispensationalist friends teach to be true, that 2/3 of the Jews living in the land during the future "great tribulation" will be killed off, even while still in their unbelief?
FWIW, the promised land extends from the mediterranian sea to the Euphrates river, north to Damascus and South to the Nile.
Is this an admission that modern Israel does not occupy all the land promised to Abraham?
Has Israel ever literally occupied all the land "from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"?
"But the Bible doesn't teach that"
Rev. 6:8 and 9:18 says that 1/4 will die during the first judgments and 1/3 of the rest will die during the second wave of judgments. How many die during the last wave, the woes, is left to speculation but an interesting point is there will be a time when in spite of the horrors, men will not be able to die. God is showing that the physical suffering is nothing compared to what is in store for those who refuse to repent and trust Christ for salvation.
reformed escatology.
How many die during the last wave, the woes, is left to speculation ...
Oooh, why do you need to rely on speculation to come up with your number? Such details in Revelation about future events and suddenly we are forced to deal in speculation. I'm shocked!
I can just imagine if a non-dispensationalist started throwing around the word "speculation" to justify his ideas. There would be no end of the howls from the "literalist" camp.
But I think you have rightly pointed out how much of futurist dispensational theology is all about speculation. Every time the "rapture index" goes up another point it's all based on speculation about how modern events allegedly relate to the Bible.
God is showing that the physical suffering is nothing compared to what is in store for those who refuse to repent and trust Christ for salvation.
Now we seem to be "spiritualizing" to get up to the 2/3 number for all mankind.
???
the newspaper to determine the date that Jesus will come back is not any different than your looking at the history
Oh, come now, you're not serious? Reading the newspaper and predicting events in the future (and going back to change your mind several times) is the same as reading history to see what and how things have happened.
"Jerusalem surrounded by armies", "flee to the mountains", "they will fall by the edge of the sword", "they will lay their hands on you and persecute you", "this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place", all fulfilled in AD70 is supposedly the same as seeing visions of cruise missiles, Cobra helicopters, and RFID chips in the book of Revelation?
It's those types of comments that makes me love my job!
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly ; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Ro 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
So technically, we are not dealing with everyone in Israel, but only with a small group, which includes Christians.
I don't have immediate access to my Larsen Charts, so I'm not sure which prophecy we are talking about. It is my understanding that 2/3 of the inhabitants of the land of Israel (which according to GOD is the land from the Nile to the Euphrates and North to Damascus) will be killed at some point. I don't think it says that 2/3 of the Jews will be killed. Do you have the exact scripture so that we can see whether or not it refers to Jews?
Is this an admission that modern Israel does not occupy all the land promised to Abraham?
Obviously.
Has Israel ever literally occupied all the land "from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"?
According to God all that land IS the land of Israel. Whether or not it is or was inhabited by the Israelites is irrelevant. According to God all that land is included in the promise.
Who really stands with Israel? George W. Bush.
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