Posted on 07/09/2006 4:18:01 PM PDT by sionnsar
(Excerpt) Read more at angelfire.com ...
Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Britain were, before the Norman Conquest, Orthodox. Is it time to go back to being Orthodox?
I don't personally find that style of church works for me, although if it helps someone else find the Lord, good for it and them. There's certainly numerous statements in the Bible that support praising the Lord with dance, etc.
However, I am bothered by one thing. When I read the story of the Pentecost, what I read is that when the apostles began to speak in tongues, those tongues were all recognized as current languages by people of the various lands there where those languages were native. However, when I hear of people who "speak in tongues" at Pentecostal churches, it's my impression that no one there knows what they are saying, and that they are not current languages. Is that true? How does that match up with Scripture?
I just learned yesterday that an Episcopalian friend of ours is doing just that.
hehehe
In Mark 16 Jesus said;
15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
He did not specify what tongue that they would speak in.
The word tongue in the Greek language from the Strong’s Concordance is:
Glossa: of uncert. aff.: the tongue: by impl. a language (spec. one naturally unacquired) -tongue
Acts 10
44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts: 19
2: He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3: And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4: Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5: When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6: And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Even the Old testament has speaking in tongues.
Isaiah 28
9: Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12: To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
You had said,
I don't personally find that style of church works for me, although if it helps someone else find the Lord, good for it and them. There's certainly numerous statements in the Bible that support praising the Lord with dance, etc.
However, I am bothered by one thing. When I read the story of the Pentecost, what I read is that when the apostles began to speak in tongues, those tongues were all recognized as current languages by people of the various lands there where those languages were native. However, when I hear of people who "speak in tongues" at Pentecostal churches, it's my impression that no one there knows what they are saying, and that they are not current languages. Is that true? How does that match up with Scripture?
I am not speaking of someone finding the Lord for the Lord finds them through the Holy Spirit.
If one believes that the Bible is the undeniable infallible word of God then one must believe everything in the Bible and that includes the speaking of tongues as the Holy Ghost gives utterance. The speaking in tongues is not always for you or I to discern the meaning most of the time it is just giving God the glory for one by being submissive.
James 4
7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9: Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10: Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
This does not mean that there are not spies from the enemy in these church’s who speak as though they were filled with the Holy Ghost.
Did not the German spies of WWII speak plain English.
It is in the Bible therefore it is a Gift of the Holy Spirit and to be done. The Word of God is real and to be obeyed.
Philippians 2
12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
None of those Scriptural texts you quote reflect someone speaking in a tongue that none of the listeners were able to understand.
That the Holy Spirit would give someone the gift of a new language so that they could preach to a new people makes a lot of sense to me. But it makes no sense for someone to start speaking in a tongue that no one could understand. For one thing, it's a waste of effort, and for another it makes the speaker sound crazy. On that basis, I'd have to see the Bible specifically reference an apostle, preacher or prophet speaking in a tongue that none could understand (as opposed to not wishing to listen) before I would accept speaking in unknown tongues as Biblical. And I've not seen any such reference.
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