Posted on 06/29/2006 5:36:14 PM PDT by NYer
ROME, JUNE 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- An Egyptian Muslim and deputy director of a prominent Italian newspaper suggested that Mary could be the figure who brings Christians and Muslims together.
Magdi Allam of Il Corriere della Sera spoke to ZENIT about the appeal he launched in the pages of the national daily newspaper to Muslims living in Italy to visit the Marian shrines in their host country.
The journalist said that he is convinced that the Virgin Mary is a meeting point between Christians and Muslims.
"Mary is a figure present in the Koran, which dedicates an entire sura [chapter ed.n.] to her and mentions her some thirty times. In Muslim countries there are Marian shrines that are the object of veneration and pilgrimage by Christian and Muslim faithful," he said.
"Therefore, I believe that if this happens in Muslim countries, why can't it happen in a Christian country, especially in a historical phase in which we need to define symbols, values and figures that unite religions, spiritualities and cultures?" he asked.
In Allam's opinion, "the Marian pilgrimage of Loreto -- Italy's National Shrine -- could represent a moment of meeting and spiritual gathering between Muslims and Catholics, around Mary, a religious figure that is venerated by both religions."
Vittorio Messori, author of book-interviews with Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI), also wrote in Il Corriere della Sera on June 15 in support of Allam.
He said that the dialogue between Christians and Muslims "can begin afresh from Mary."
I'm a Noachide. That means I accept the Torah (as understood by traditional Orthodox Judaism) as being G-d's highest revelation. Non-Jews are bound by the Seven Noachide Laws just as Jews are bound by the 613 commandments. The authority for both comes from G-d's Revelation to Israel on Mt. Sinai.
Orthodox Judaism also rejects sola scriptura, but they're not hypocrites about it (ie, they don't celebrate their own oral tradition while attacking that of an older faith community from whom they received their text). They don't pray to Mary or to J*sus because they had a relationship with G-d all along (just as Fundamentalist Protestants already have a relationship with J*sus without Mary). Moreover the Torah is the most universally acknowledged religious document on earth. The traditional argument against it is "it doesn't apply any more." But the thing is, everyone agrees that this "defunct" Revelation is from G-d while they can't agree on what replaced it!
There's lots more I could write, but fr*day's the short day! Suffice it to say that by rejecting the "new testament" and accepting the teachings of the source religion all the difficulties vanished and I found peace. Not that peace is the ultimate goal (at least in this life), but Judaism sure doesn't have the hypocrisies and contradictions of chr*stianity (especially liturgical chr*stianity). Do you realize that Catholicism insists that man is too fallen for the Torah to do any good, but when Protestants say that man is fallen too far for rosary beads to do any good they disagree? All of a sudden man isn't so "fallen" after all! It seems man fell only enough to deligitimize the Torah, but no further. Now ain't that convenient? Especially since the story of the fall is actually in the Torah!
I haven't read your responses in depth, but I wanted to thank you for dealing with these issues and take back the hurtful things I said earlier. You may good points when you set your mind to it. Would that more people would simply listen.
Please forgive me for anything I've hurtful I've said to you as well. I sometimes "shoot from the hip," and I don't think about the consequences.
On that note, I should start following my own tagline. :-)
"For some reason we can "understand" everyone in the world other than the "redneck" Bible-thumper. Everyone else has a "reason" for believing or doing what he does, but the Fundamentalist Protestant is allegedly human excrescence without a brain in his head."
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We are the last group in America you can be prejudiced against without fear of reprisal by the State.
"For some reason we can "understand" everyone in the world other than the "redneck" Bible-thumper. Everyone else has a "reason" for believing or doing what he does, but the Fundamentalist Protestant is allegedly human excrescence without a brain in his head."
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We are the last group in America you can be prejudiced against without fear of reprisal by the State.
I figure that anyone who believes that abortion is wrong, homosexuality is an abomination, and that Jesus Christ is God is included in that group.
I am confused. My post "172 was removed.
Yet someone ( who strangely enough would claim he venerates Mary!) uses the contemptible phrase " crap on Mary" and he is not rebuked?
Please stop feeling sorry for us Catholics. We don't want your pity or your evangelical outreach.
At this point, neither. The State (specifically the Commonwealth of Massachusetts) unleashed its force against Catholic Charities there, since they wouldn't let homosexuals adopt children.
Bless you!
In case you have not read it, I believe you will find this Jew's conversion story supports catholic doctrine with regard to Mary.
Roy Schoeman conversion.
BTW - Roy Schoeman is author of a the book Salvation is from the Jews. It is an excellent book and well worth reading.
What Theoden states is (bolded emphasis mine):
" I believe that everyone will end up being saved, but because of their sins (especially those committed with intentional malice) will go to hell to pay for what they have done, and for nor repenting. Christ saved us, but we have to earn it, or keep up our end of the bargain so to speak. It is dangerous to go around thinking that one can do what they want, because they are already saved."
Theoden is referring to the concept of "once saved, always saved". Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
I have many Non-Catholic Christian friends who believe that once Jesus came Judaisim ended and is no longer relevant/valid. Anything beyond the NT is irrelevant to their forms of Christian worship. I find that shocking!
I am not suprised that some evangelical Christians are still stuck on this issue of Mary, mother of Jesus. I had thought that when the movie, " The Passion of the Christ " came out a few years back, thanks to Mel Gibson, it would help evangelicals take a new look and interest in Mary and from there treat her with a little more respect because of her having to suffer alongside her son.
Yes ... I am well aware of how the mention of the Mother of God, makes the shackles stand up on the backs of Evangelicals. As for the Jews, however, Mary was a Jew which, according to the Jewish faith, makes Jesus a Jew. ALL of the Apostles were Jews. If anyone could hold great appeal for the Jews, surely it would be Mariyam.
During the spring of 1987, a Jew by the name of Roy Schoeman, educated by some of the top rabbis in this country, took a few days off from work at Harvard University, and went to Cape Cod to spend time in the nature there. He was walking in the early morning, in the woods just back from the beach, when God intervened, dramatically and distinctly, into his life to pull him back and put him onto the right path. As he was walking, lost in his thoughts, he found himself in the immediate presence of God. It is as though he "fell into Heaven." Everything changed from one moment to the next, but in such a smooth and subtle way that he was not aware of any discontinuity. He felt himself in the immediate presence of God. He was aware of His infinite exaltedness, and of His infinite and personal love for him.
Schoeman saw that the meaning and purpose of his life was to worship and serve his Lord and Master, in whose presence he found himself. He wanted to know His name, so that he could worship Him properly, so that he could follow "His" religion. He remembers silently praying "Tell me your name. I don't mind if You're Apollo, and I have to become a Roman pagan. I don't mind if You're Krishna, and I have to become a Hindu. I don't mind if You're Buddha, and I have to become a Buddhist. As long as You're not Christ, and I have to become a Christian!" But God did not reveal His name to him.
Every night before going to sleep he would repeat that prayer. A year to the day after the initial experience, he went to sleep after saying that prayer, and felt as though he was woken by a gentle hand on his shoulder, and escorted to a room where he was left alone with the most beautiful young woman he could imagine. Even as a Jew, he recognized her as the Blessed Mother Mary. What happened next is simply miraculous.
You can read his story here.
Thank-You. If Fulton Sheen had come around decades later, I bet he would have had not only a teaching show on a cable like EWTN, but also have a website linked up to EWTN. He not only is in my eyes a saint, but also he was when he was alive a man of vision and ahead of his times. I try to get his show on Sundays on EWTN.
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