Posted on 05/28/2006 5:31:47 AM PDT by NYer
"At a small Catholic church in Huntington Beach, the pressing moral question comes to this: Does kneeling at the wrong time during worship make you a sinner?"
Kneeling "is clearly rebellion, grave disobedience and mortal sin," Father Martin Tran, pastor at St. Mary's by the Sea, told his flock in a recent church bulletin. The Diocese of Orange backs Tran's anti-kneeling edict.
Though told by the pastor and the archdiocese to stand during certain parts of the liturgy, a third of the congregation still gets on its knees every Sunday.
"Kneeling is an act of adoration," said Judith M. Clark, 68, one of at least 55 parishioners who have received letters from church leaders urging them to get off their knees or quit St. Mary's and the Diocese of Orange. "You almost automatically kneel because you're so used to it. Now the priest says we should stand, but we all just ignore him."
The debate is being played out in at least a dozen parishes nationwide.
Since at least the 7th century, Catholics have been kneeling after the Agnus Dei, the point during Mass when the priest holds up the chalice and consecrated bread and says, "Behold the lamb of God." But four years ago, the Vatican revised its instructions, allowing bishops to decide at some points in the Mass whether their flocks should get on their knees. "The faithful kneel
unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise," says Rome's book of instructions. Since then, some churches have been built without kneelers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
LOL!
. . . now that's a bishop with a sense of humor!
So... what's the Pope's phone number?
I had it a few days ago... ; )
The First Council of Nicaea (AD 325)had this to say about kneeling on Sundays.
Canon 20. Forasmuch as there are certain persons who kneel on the Lord's Day and in the days of Pentecost, therefore, to the intent that all things may be uniformly observed everywhere(in every parish), it seems good to the holy Synod that prayer be made to God standing.
It's still observed in the Byzantine Church.
What about the Russian tradition of prostrating during the epiclesis? I observed it at the OCA cathedral in D.C.
Watch that OCA, there's a lot of western stuff that ends up there...
Am I reading that right?
I think that it's fine, but to say kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer is a mortal sin, smacks of absolute ignorance and arrogance.
I also think kneeling before the Eucharist brings about humility. IMHO....
Absolutely. Kneeling on Sundays is a violation of the First Ecumenical Council's 1,600-year-old teaching.
Kneeling on Sundays is an innovation of the Counter-Reformation. Kneeling is a sign of penitence, but every Sunday is a mini-Pascha; therefore, prayer to the Lord is to be made standing.
Yep, we all mortal sinners should resigned to a life of eternal damnation and be done with it. There's no hope for all of us kneelers.
Amen. I agree with you.
No way ladies... I'm taking you two with me!
Hold on tight. ; )
LOL! OK, I'm ready.
Everybody knows that the Pope's phone number is
Et Cum Spiri-220.
The use of the term 'violation' is nearly tantamount to the outrageous statment by Father Martin Tran that Kneeling "is clearly rebellion, grave disobedience and mortal sin,"
Over the centuries, the practice of kneeling in reverance has been adopted by many churches. The cultural barriers that once separated all of us have fallen. There are westerners who practice their faith in eastern churches and v.v. Ultimately, the key word is "reverance", be it kneeling or standing. For any priest to mandate only one form, shows a total disregard for the heart and soul of the worshiper who chooses the other.
In fact, during the Epiclesis, the Maronite priest drops to both knees behind the altar, elevates his hands and calls down the Holy Spirit to accept our offerings. Is this not the ultimate form of reverence? The principal celebrant in the above picture is beginning to chant of the Words of Institution. Notice that the three priests assisting, are on their knees.
In the Maronite Catholic Church, both standing and kneeling are considered acceptable forms of reverance.
ROFL!!! Thanks! I needed a good laugh tonight.
If by prostration, it is meant bowing down to the ground as the Eastern Orthodox do, then it is practiced in some Catholic churches.
I have seen sisters in religious orders do so in French churches - Carmelites ... and some other order. They are praying kneeling on the floor (with no pews) and then they bend forward and press their forehead to the ground.
They might have picked this up from spirituality exchanges with Orthodox teachers. This form of praying is quite ancient, but is now mainly associated with Muslims. However, it would have been practiced in many churches at one time.
It has the advantage, for people like me, that it brings the blood back to your head. It is a prayer gesture which seems to make one concentrate. I get quite faint and sick if I stand motionless or kneel up on my knees for any long length of time. My circulation gives up.
Bump!
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