Posted on 04/25/2006 8:04:00 AM PDT by churchillbuff
From time to time, some people will suggest that all the world’s religions are of equal value and accomplish the same end. “All roads lead to God,” these folks say. “Whatever name you call him (or her), it’s still the same God,” others proclaim.
I am not among these people. I do not believe that all religions are of equal value, though there is value in most forms of religion, and I do not believe they accomplish the same end. Neither do I believe that, whatever name is used, all names for God refer to the same God.
As an historic, orthodox Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ was telling the truth when he said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 NIV).
This, of course, is a scandalous statement. Either Jesus was deluded and should be denounced as a madman or he was speaking the truth.
If he was deluded, then Christianity is a farce and 1.5 billion people are ensnared in false hope.
If he spoke the truth, however, then all religions are not of equal value.
Religious pluralism says that “there are many, many ways to God and all of these ways are good.”
But Jesus claimed that he was the way. Not just that his teachings were the way but that he himself was the way to the Father. Not only that, he claimed that, outside of him, there was no other way.
Further, he claimed not only that he taught truth but that he was the truth.
Certainly, all religious faiths contain truth, but Jesus claimed that all truth regarding spiritual matters was found in his own person. If he is the repository of truth and if truth cannot be found outside him, then other religions contain error. And, if one is seeking God, then error can lead one away from, rather than toward, God.
Jesus also declared that he was the life. Much of religion is a search for fullness of life on the earth and a quest for any life that may exist beyond this temporal plane.
In addressing this first consideration, Jesus said, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10 KJV). The reason he came at all was to bring a quality of life never before known or experienced. He also came to insure eternal life for those who would believe and put their trust in him.
As John 3:16-17 states: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (NKJV).
But the claim to exclusivity is found in his words, “No one comes to the Father except through me.” That means that the way, the only way, to God is in a relationship with Jesus Christ.
That is offensive and repugnant to some, but it is still what he claimed. If there is a “Plan B,” it is not found in the scriptures.
Christianity makes for itself the claim that the only true path to finding one’s destiny, one’s ultimate plan, in fact the only path to God the Father, is found in Christ.
“So,” someone will ask, “are you saying that Christianity is the only true faith and that all others are wrong?”
That is, in fact, the claim of historic, orthodox Christianity. Christians believe that all that God began in the Book of Genesis and continued in the books of the Old Testament was brought to consummation in the person of Jesus Christ.
Scandalous? Yes. Absurd? So it may seem. Outrageous? Many think so.
A number of years ago, I was looking for a small town in Colorado and became lost. I stopped and asked directions of a man who owned a filling station. The directions he gave described a curvy and treacherous trek over some mountains. I asked if there was a shorter or safer way to get there. “Nope,” he said, “there’s only one way to get there from here.”
The New Living Translation puts it this way: “For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved” (Romans 10:9-10).
It’s the only way to get there from here.
I would suggest perhaps its you that needs to grow up. When you describe my answers as being "cold" don't you think that's somewhat judgemental? Try and not confuse responses that disagree with responses that are "cold". Also try and not confuse a little humor with maturity or the lack thereof.
Just wondering why you would pray for me after saying "Not all non-Christians are atheist" as if I had thought you were an atheist. I didn't want to offend you, so I asked for some prayers if you prayed. Nothing more, nothing less.
you also threw the following in: If you do pray or ever pray again
I wanted to let you know I wan't atheist as your comments may or may not have led one to believe.
Faith is personal, I'd rather not use it as leverage against someone I do not know. I'd rather not make faith or prayers a weapon or a device of division.
Then just pray for me without letting me know you're gonna pray for me. The standard "I'll pray for you" comment when one learns there is religious disagreement is, for the most part, disengenuos.
Your mistrust is evident. Is it my moniker? I guess I shouldn't look for straight forwardness on the board.
There ya go again. Acccording to you I'm to assume you are straightforward and I am not. Its judgemental and hypocrital of you.
Regardless, I truly do appreciate your prayers. I need them!you do pray or ever pray again
Lol. You're priceless. I'd ask you to pray for me but I'm afraid you'd thank God for not being a lowly sinner like me.
Why did she wait so long?
There is not a single instance in the N.T. of people being converted, then waiting a period of time before being baptized.
Give God a little credit."
I would give God more than a little credit in this manner: I would say that God would never allow someone to die on the way to baptism. It is silly to think that all existence is maintained by God, yet somehow God cannot prevent accidents, as if He were not the author of all things, and as if he had no control over a person's death.
I therefore give more credit to God than has been portrayed.
St. Robert Bellarmine: God provides Baptism for all His elect."
Having said that, I also have to say that we Christians have been given a Commandment:
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
I don't think that the innocent child who dies without ever having heard the name of Jesus is in any spiritual trouble. But if we fail to love, reach out, and teach, and baptize, we are in spiritual trouble...
Totally irrelevant to the point.
SD
Therefore, someone in the situation I described is damned. Thank you.
SD
You're not understanding what I said, clearly. What I stated was very simple: God is not going to allow a person to die on their way to baptism. Not someone who truly desires it. Not a chance.
One must trust God.
Backing up, another point needs to be made. Of those who propose a baptism of desire, there are two kinds: one is explicit, the other is implicit. The theological proposition, which is not a doctrine of the Church, which has been proposed based on an article in St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica is that of an explicit baptism of desire. This speculation did not find its way into the dogmatic Council of Trent. However, the baptism of desire which you have proposed here is not of this variety, but rather, an implicit baptism of desire. An implicit baptism of desire is not of the same variety which addressed the specific case of one who dies on their way to baptism. That kind would be a theory of an explicit baptism of desire.
Then clearly all those who are preparing for baptism must be invincible. Immune from the random acts of life. Protected by a special forcefield of impenetrability.
It's a pity that God drops this divine protection the second we hit the waters of Baptism.
Seems kind of backwards, doesn't it?
Backing up, another point needs to be made. Of those who propose a baptism of desire, there are two kinds: one is explicit, the other is implicit.
Yes, there are two kinds. But you are denying that anything except a valid sacramental baptism will suffice for salvation. So that's where I am arguing.
SD
"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." (John 10:16)
If you do not know of Jesus but lead a moral and good life, heaven is for you, iirc.
John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:26-27
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 10:7-9
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Rom 14:10-12
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Heb 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
I did? Must have missed it.
I did not say I didn't judge. I am just stating this because you have judged me directly. I Did not mean the "I'll pray for you" in any disingenuous fashion. Note that I asked you to pray for me after that statement.
I disagree. You seem pretty self-righteous dude.
I do not agree that religious differences make us incapable of praying for each other or stating that fact.
Who are you disgreeing with? Since I didn't say that it must not be me.
I was truly looking for a way to part without bashing each other in the eye. I do not think I am better than you or have no sin. I fail all the time in my fallen nature. I need prayers very much.
You were taking subtle shots at me while parting. Please be honest.
" My prayer is not meant to hurt you. I did not think to hide it from you or slam it in your face. I did not know that we needed to meet a prayer etiquette. I was simply indicating that I would remember you in my conversation with God and I asked for the same from you. I pray in private, I pray in public and I see it the same as talking or walking. It is not something I would consider I needed to hide. Unless of course, you demand that I not let you know. Then I will respect your desire. But, I did not mean to hurt you, just extend our conversation to our prayer life. Nothing bad.
Lol. I pray in my closet, I pray 3 times daily. I pray when I walk, I pray in conversation, I pray, I pray, I pray. Didn't Christ actually tell you not to broadcast your praying. Something about a closet.
God bless and good day. May you find peace in your life.
Barf.
I recognize that I am in spiritual trouble when I become focused on myself. By loving others, reaching out and teaching, I become closer to Him, which is a gift in itself.
One cannot be on the one hand in invincible ignorance, yet on the other, a catechumen in the process of learning the dogmas of the Catholic Church.
"It's a pity that God drops this divine protection the second we hit the waters of Baptism.
Seems kind of backwards, doesn't it?"
No, because a baptized soul immediately after baptism, who dies without losing the state of sanctifying grace, will enter immediately into the Beatific Vision. Hardly a loss.
"But you are denying that anything except a valid sacramental baptism will suffice for salvation."
Of course. Because the dogmatic Council of Trent denies the same.
I don't believe God puts them in HELL. If they have never had the chance to hear about Jesus, I believe God will receive them, if they have lived a good life. They may never see God in all His Glory, as they would through a relationship with Jesus, but I don't believe they are sent to Hell.
I believe Hell is of our own making; when we turn ourselves away from the Light of Truth and keep making the choices that move us further away, unless we repent of our sins and work hard to get back, we consign ourselves to an eternal darkness, and we'll never see God. To me, that is Hell.
I don't disagree with that either. Why do you feel I need to know you're praying for me? Just do it. And then your Father who sees you in secret will reward you openly.
don't want you to lose your reward because you're shouting it from the street corners and in the Synagogues.
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