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Europe's Chastisement? -- How the Abandonment of Christianity May Be Leading to Disaster
Agape Press.org ^ | April 12, 2006 | Ed Vitagliano

Posted on 04/18/2006 12:26:41 AM PDT by albyjimc2

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1 posted on 04/18/2006 12:26:46 AM PDT by albyjimc2
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To: albyjimc2

Good summation.


2 posted on 04/18/2006 12:44:57 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

The part that truly shocked me was the point that the average Russian woman has 4 abortions. I stomach almost came out of my mouth. that is absolutley disgusting...


3 posted on 04/18/2006 12:48:46 AM PDT by albyjimc2 (If dying's asked of me, I'll bear that cross with honor, cause freedom don't come free...)
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To: albyjimc2
Not another the sky is falling thread.

Most of the Muslim population in European countries is 3% at most.

Only in France is it 9%.

The increase is due to immigration legal and illegal.

Yes Muslims have large families in the countries of the births, but there children born in a Western country are not interested in large families, but more interested in enjoying the same things there white or Christian counterparts want.

And also latest figures have shown that the birth rate is going up again for Europeans. Coupled with stricter immigration, as well as a concerted effort to remove the illegals.

I would question the motives of those who write these articles, what is is they want to achieve with these doom and gloom scenarios based on very shaky facts and premises.

Is it that a scared population is more easy to manipulate.

The Nazis used similar scare tactics and were very involved in turning everyone into baby breeding units.

4 posted on 04/18/2006 12:59:34 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh
You make some good points, but what is the average birth rate of english speaking Americans?

I have 3 kids, and that seems to be more then the average couple. When I look around where I live and compare the size of Hmong and Mexican families, I see them having many more children.

I can see the ironic twist of success. If you are a little well off, then you can provide alot more for just one kid. Vacations can be more elaborate. Cars can be smaller or more expensive. Special summer camps can be more easily paid for. In other words, a middle class family can have an easier time to give less children a better chance at an upper class life style.

On the other hand, if you are not so well off, then one child doesn't help much to support the family. More children also increase the odds that one might marry rich or be uniquely talented. If you are poor, you don't really worry about spending your child's college fund. Plus, in America, Welfare and other charity organizations prevent the starvation that occurs in other countries (Mexico, Laos, etc.), so the immigrants recognize a great opportunity and take advantage of it.

In time (maybe not 50 years) the numbers of the non English speaking "Americans" will vastly out number the English speaking, and at that time you will see a majority rule change.

I don't know if that is being doom and gloom, but it makes sense mathematically.

Sincerely
5 posted on 04/18/2006 1:38:54 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: tonycavanagh; albyjimc2



Muslim Europe
by Daniel Pipes

Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." So declares Oriana Fallaci in her new book, La Forza della Ragione, or, "The Force of Reason." And the famed Italian journalist is right: Christianity's ancient stronghold of Europe is rapidly giving way to Islam.

Two factors mainly contribute to this world-shaking development.

*The hollowing out of Christianity. Europe is increasingly a post-Christian society, one with a diminishing connection to its tradition and its historic values. The numbers of believing, observant Christians has collapsed in the past two generations to the point that some observers call it the "new dark continent." Already, analysts estimate Britain's mosques host more worshippers each week than does the Church of England.

* An anemic birth rate. Indigenous Europeans are dying out. Sustaining a population requires each woman on average to bear 2.1 children; in the European Union, the overall rate is one-third short, at 1.5 a woman, and falling. One study finds that, should current population trends continue and immigration cease, today's population of 375 million could decline to 275 million by 2075.To keep its working population even, the E.U. needs 1.6 million immigrants a year; to sustain the present workers-to-retirees ratio requires an astonishing 13.5 million immigrants annually. (more)

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1796


6 posted on 04/18/2006 2:02:02 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
re :Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." So declares Oriana Fallaci in her new book, La Forza della Ragione, or, "The Force of Reason."

LOL let me guess she has a book to sell.

So more people go to a Mosque in Britain than the Church Of England even tho, the Muslim population in Britain is 3% at most.

7 posted on 04/18/2006 2:08:12 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh; albyjimc2

"So more people go to a Mosque in Britain than the Church Of England even tho, the Muslim population in Britain is 3% at most."


"...the traditional ‘usual Sunday attendance’ measure showed a drop of two per cent to just over 900,000.." - http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/pr0106.html

Muslim Britain: More people attend mosques than Church of England
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/000743.php


So how many closed churches do you pass on the way to work?

(hate to post and run, but I'm off...)


8 posted on 04/18/2006 2:17:26 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
re :So how many closed churches do you pass on the way to work?

None but there are three churches within 10 min walking distance from me. One Church of England two Catholic, and a Baptist meeting hall down the road

9 posted on 04/18/2006 3:26:11 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: albyjimc2

bookmark


10 posted on 04/18/2006 3:45:03 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: tonycavanagh
The Nazis used similar scare tactics

Logical fallacy of guilt-by-association. The Nazis also built compact cars and expressways. Does that make compact cars and expressways bad?

and were very involved in turning everyone into baby breeding units.

Historically false. They wanted more "Aryan" German babies, but promoted contraception, sterilization, and abortion for Slavs and Jews.

12 posted on 04/18/2006 6:44:31 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
tut tut Campion.

Well my reply seemed to have rattled you.Maybe its just part of a bums on seats operation, to get more people into church and more money into the church coffers.

LOL using the Muslims as the bogey men

13 posted on 04/18/2006 7:09:57 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh
Most of the Muslim population in European countries is 3% at most.

What's really important here is not the actual figure now, but rather the direction of the trend and the projected figures if present rates are maintained. That's what has some people alarmed.

Sure, we're a long way from a Muslim dominated Europe- at least numerically- but I think it would be rather dangerous to equate a 3% population figure with a 3% influence on European civilization in terms of laws, customs and societal stability. If there's one thing that we've learned in recent years, it's that Muslims have the potential to produce destabilization to a degree which is disproportionate to their numbers.

Furthermore, the 3% figure does not mean that Muslims are dispersed throughout European society in a more or less homogenous distribution. They are concentrated heavily in certain areas where their numbers often approach 70-100%. In the UK, parts of Leeds, Bradford, Birmingham and the East End of London come to mind. They have not integrated into western society. At least not yet.

Banking on the next generation of Muslims all forsaking the mosque for soccer stadiums, pubs and nightclubs seems a little like playing Russian roulette to me, except that the chances of disaster are higher. I don't see it happening. The radicals and bomb throwers who now afflict us seem to be drawn from this younger generation and if anything, seem even more dangerous than their parents. Case in point: those responsible for the recent London Underground bombings.

14 posted on 04/18/2006 7:37:24 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
re :Banking on the next generation of Muslims all forsaking the mosque for soccer stadiums, pubs and nightclubs seems a little like playing Russian roulette to me, except that the chances of disaster are higher.

Oh I know they are more radical, they remind me of the Badder Meinhoff and Red Army Faction.

But they are not breeding like there parents to put it bluntly, so we are not going to be out bred by them.

There has only been one attack in Britain, you can say one attack too many but its hardly the beginning of the end.

The IRA were more of a threat.

The Muslim radicals in Britain are on the defensive, many have fled abroad, we have arrested and detained most of the more prominent who didn't run.

We have there measure now.

15 posted on 04/18/2006 7:55:53 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Lord Washbourne
Good points.

Don't forget to factor in the continued migration of many of the well educated European young people to other Western nations because they can't find acceptable wages or employment after graduation in their liberal/socialist states.

17 posted on 04/18/2006 10:39:17 AM PDT by Earthdweller
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To: PetroniusMaximus
How do the figures stack if you include the other denominations.

In my experience the free churches and Catholics have a much higher attendance rate than the C of E.

A case of using figures to support your claim.

I am not saying Church attendance is great in Britain but it is not a bad as they are leading you to think.
18 posted on 04/18/2006 11:20:25 AM PDT by snugs (An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME)
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To: snugs
"A case of using figures to support your claim."

I believe the author only claimed mosque attendance what higher than CoE attendance.
19 posted on 04/18/2006 11:27:34 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: tonycavanagh
Only in France is it 9%.

Here's the problem with snapshot statistics like this. It doesn't attempt to project into the future. The really dire statistics are ones like the percentage of Islamic kids in Amsterdam schools (ca. 50%) and the name Mohammed being among the most popular names for new babies in England (it isn't #1 yet, but it appeared in the top 10 names twice under different spellings).

In the case of Europe, the sky really is falling. They need a Christian revival--10 years ago.
20 posted on 04/18/2006 11:31:41 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals regardless of their party affiliation.)
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