Posted on 04/01/2006 7:37:23 PM PST by churchillbuff
The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has it) is that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas Unitarians believe that they’re too good to be damned. I am a Universalist.
For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.
It’s easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the biblical record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of evil: Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell for all who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral ledger sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the afterlife becomes unfair as well.
The problem is, when we project our retributive logic onto a cosmic screen, we pervert the divine image. We predicate hell on the irreverent presumption that God’s appetite for vengeance—an all-voracious version of our own nagging hunger—must be satisfied. "She’ll get hers in hell," we say. That balances our ledger, but it turns God into a jailer.
The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the utility of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I believe about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus’ gospel.
Jesus was anything but a biblical literalist. He teaches by parable, not by citing chapter and verse, and gets into holy mischief by repeatedly breaking the letter of scripture. Love is the sum and substance of all the law and the prophets, he teaches. He enjoins us to forgive and love our enemies. "Your enemy be damned," is no part of his gospel.
"Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," Jesus instructs his disciples. That perfection can be summed up in three words, each an expression of divine love: justice, mercy and forgiveness. Standing alone, justice might allow for the creation of hell, but mercy and forgiveness render it morally impossible. We can sift a spoonful of evidence for hell from the scriptures, even as we can ladle out dozens of arguments for slavery. Neither, however, meets the requirements of the biblical Spirit, whose imperative is love.
If we, mere humans, can forgive unforgettable damage, can't God?
I would disagree.
These basically aren't churches, they are just generic houses of worship self-esteem.
Hiya Quix!
How ya been?
gehenna - Gehenna refers to a valley just outside Jerusalem. The word is derived from the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom, the valley of Hinnom (Joshua 18:16). At the time of Jesus this valley was what we might call the city dump—the place where garbage, trash and refuse were thrown and consumed in the fires that constantly burned there. The carcasses of dead animals—and the bodies of despised criminals—were also cast into Gehenna to be burned. Jesus used this particular location and what took place there to help us understand the fate the wicked and unrepentant will suffer in the future. (from "Heaven and Hell")
Jesus uses this term here:
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
This term is used in Mat_5:22, Mat_5:29-30 (2), Mat_10:28, Mat_18:9, Mat_23:15, Mat_23:33, Mar_9:43, Mar_9:45, Mar_9:47, Jam_3:5-6
tartaroo - used only once in the Bible (2 Peter 2:4), where it refers to the place where the fallen angels, or demons, are restrained awaiting their judgment. The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words explains that tartaroo means "to confine in tartaros" and that "Tartaros was the Greek name for the mythological abyss where rebellious gods were confined" (Lawrence Richards, 1985, "Heaven and Hell"). Peter used this reference to contemporary mythology to show that the sinning angels were "delivered ... into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment." Fallen angels are in a condition or place of restraint awaiting their ultimate judgment for their rebellion against God and destructive influence on humanity. Tartaroo applies only to demons. Nowhere does it refer to a fiery hell in which people are punished after death.
hades - "The Greek word Hades ... is sometimes, but misleadingly, translated 'hell' in English versions of the N[ew] T[estament]. It refers to the place of the dead ... The old Hebrew concept of the place of the dead, most often called Sheol ... is usually translated as Hades, and the Greek term was naturally and commonly used by Jews writing in Greek" (1992, Vol. 3, p. 14, "Hades, Hell").
Both sheol and hades refer to the grave. A comparison of an Old Testament and a New Testament scripture confirm this. Psalm 16:10 says, "For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." In Acts 2:27 the apostle Peter quotes this verse and shows that it is a reference to Christ. Here the Greek word hades is substituted for the Hebrew sheol.
Where did Christ go when He died? He went to the grave. His body was placed in a tomb belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. The two passages, in Psalms and Acts, tell us Jesus' flesh did not decay in the grave because God resurrected Him.
The majority of scriptures that use the term hell are simply talking about the grave, the place where everyone, whether good or evil, goes at death. The Hebrew word sheol is used in the Old Testament 65 times. In the King James Version it is translated "grave" 31 times, "hell" 31 times and "pit" three times. (from "Heaven and Hell")
In addition, there is the "lake of fire":
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is what Christ was referring to when he used the term "gehenna". Wicked people who refuse to accept Christ will surely go there, but they will burn up and die. That's why it's called "the second death".
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (gehhena).
Note that Jesus Christ says that soul and body will be destroyed in Gehenna. So I would disagree that there is no hell, but would agree that people are not tortured eternally.
All good originates with the Divine. In the charitable act you describe as an example, I will assume that the fellow loves God as he understands him and is charitable to the neighbor. If he is doing these acts for no benefit to himself - WHAT DIFFERENCE is what he knows the Lord's name as?
If you love God, love the neighbor and live a good live you will go to heaven. If you love yourself, love the world and live a life of evil you will go to hell.
Hell as the second death or a true death has been my reading of the text.
That's what repentence is for. :=)
Only fools would argue with what God's Word says. The Bible says there is a Hell, and when the Bible says something, there is NO room for dispute. End of story!
Money, malarchy, and menace all rolled up in one family.
LOL! Exactly, but he better have his asbestos undies on because when the flames of Hell evaporate that water, he's gonna need them. :o)
They didn't have chapters and verses yet. They cited Scripture by incipit, which Jesus did all the time.
Obviously, you've never tried to drive to someplace in Beverly Hills where you've never been before during lunch hour.
Growing in The Lord.
Thankfully, no choice.
I hope the same for you?
His highest to you and yours.
Thanks for asking.
Douglas, could you elaborate on this some more? Thank you for the scripture references and explanation.
Well if you were to point that out to the "good Reverend" he would just say
They are political organizations disguised as churches.
Hell wasn't invented to balance the moral ledger, but because some souls are obviously damned.
What does John 14.6 have to do with hell?
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