There Is No Hell

beliefnet ^ | Ap 1 06 | Rev Forrest Church

[churchillbuff]

The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has it) is that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas Unitarians believe that they’re too good to be damned. I am a Universalist.

For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.

It’s easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the biblical record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of evil: Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell for all who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral ledger sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the afterlife becomes unfair as well.

The problem is, when we project our retributive logic onto a cosmic screen, we pervert the divine image. We predicate hell on the irreverent presumption that God’s appetite for vengeance—an all-voracious version of our own nagging hunger—must be satisfied. "She’ll get hers in hell," we say. That balances our ledger, but it turns God into a jailer.

The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the utility of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I believe about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus’ gospel.

Jesus was anything but a biblical literalist. He teaches by parable, not by citing chapter and verse, and gets into holy mischief by repeatedly breaking the letter of scripture. Love is the sum and substance of all the law and the prophets, he teaches. He enjoins us to forgive and love our enemies. "Your enemy be damned," is no part of his gospel.

"Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," Jesus instructs his disciples. That perfection can be summed up in three words, each an expression of divine love: justice, mercy and forgiveness. Standing alone, justice might allow for the creation of hell, but mercy and forgiveness render it morally impossible. We can sift a spoonful of evidence for hell from the scriptures, even as we can ladle out dozens of arguments for slavery. Neither, however, meets the requirements of the biblical Spirit, whose imperative is love.

If we, mere humans, can forgive unforgettable damage, can't God?

[trubluolyguy]

For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.

---

Someone's in for a nasty surprise when he leaves the planet.

[Alex Murphy]

Is Heavan a planet?

It is - or something very near like it - in at least one claims-to-be-Christian religion that I know of...

[kcvl]

Reverend Forest Church, the son of Idaho’s late Senator Frank Church

[plain talk]

But eternal hellfire demeans everything I believe about God

The key word in this sentence is the word "I".

[Phsstpok]

I'm sorry, but the writer, and by extension this belief system is hopelessly infantile.

Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them

Contrary to what one might think, given my previous statement, I believe that to be a true statement.

For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.

This is the statement that is hopelessly stupid.  There is no "cattle car" to "Satan's fiery pit" for sure, but that isn't hell, and it never was.  Hell is, quite simply, the opposite of Heaven.  And Heaven is, quite simply, communion with God.  If we are not in communion with God then we are "in hell."

When we die we will find ourselves confronted by the reality of God without the delusions and idiotic self deception exemplified by the above statement.  I am not capable of imagining what God truly is like, no one is, but we will know exactly who God is and we will know, without the ability to hide behind forgetfullness or rationalizations, exactly how we have failed Him.  And we will be ashamed.

God is Mercy, God is Love and God forgives us.  But God is not about to let us lie, even to ourselves.  And until we get past the absolute truth of our own failures in this life we will be too ashamed to commune with our God.  We will condemn ourselves to hell, not God. 

God loves us.  God has always loved us and God will always love us.  And He gave us Jesus as proof of that, as something to hold onto when we have to confront our own failings.  We don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved by God or from God's wrath.  We are already saved and the proof of God's love is Jesus.  That's why we have to believe in Jesus, to convince ourselves to remember God's love when we must inevitably face how we have failed Him.

[Dr. Thorne]

If we, mere humans, can forgive unforgettable damage, can't God?

He certainly can, Pharisee. But He won't without the forgiveness of sins we receive when we acknowledge Christ as Savior.

"Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell, for wickedness is in their dwellings and among them." - Psalms 55:15

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25:41 (Jesus' words)

"I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." - Acts 26:17, 18 (Jesus' words to Saul, later Paul, on the Damascus Road)

[Awestruck]

amen to that! That's why He gave us free will.... our decision where we want to end up.. can't just cancel it out because you don't like the ending.

[TFMcGuire]

Enjoy the education without tuition provided by the many freepers which have answered your proposition.

God says Gehenna exists; you say it doesn't. I believe God.

You are wresting the Scriptures to your own destruction.

May God give you sight and Light.

[churchillbuff]

the many freepers which have answered your proposition. ""

To be clear, it's not my proposition - it's Rev. Church's I posted it to get freepers' perspective. Personally, I don't see how Rev Church can say, or imply, that hell isn't in the Bible.

[Logophile]

If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved.

If he exists? I'd say that the good Reverand is rather selective in his reading of the Bible. Or maybe he forgot the parts that talk about the devil(s).

[kcvl]

Reverend Forest Church, the son of Idaho’s late Senator Frank Church

Dr. Church is also a member of the Executive Board at the Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Institute and serves on the Board of Bridges toward Justice, dedicated to strengthening the Chinese criminal justice system. Mayor Giuliani appointed him Chairman of the Council on the Environment of New York City in 1995. Serving in his tenth year as chair, he directs, among other programs, 32 green markets in the city.

He is married to Carolyn Buck Luce and has four children, Frank (26), Nina (24), Jacob (21), and Nathan (19).

Carolyn Buck Luce is a well-known figure in the financial world. A senior partner at Ernst & Young, one of the world’s major financial and consulting firms, she has many demands in her professional life. With graceful aplomb, she combines them with a busy family life and a dizzying array of board positions. Many of the boards relate to the concerns of the working professional woman. At All Souls, Carolyn is known as Carolyn Church, the wife of Forest Church.

Carolyn is a Senior Partner at Ernst & Young in the Global Accounts Group and is a member of the Partner’s Advisory Council to the Board. She is also a member of the firm’s Investment Advisory Board. Currently, she specializes in advising multi-national pharmaceutical companies such as Bristol Myers Squibb and Pfizer. Before that, she headed Ernst &Young’s e-commerce consulting program.

She is also a member of the Foreign Policy Association. “I have increasing interest in politics,” she said. “I raised money for the Kerry campaign and hope to do more fund-raising for the Democratic Party in the future. I am treasurer of several boards.” Carolyn is a frequent speaker at professional conferences and served recently as Ernst & Young’s delegate to the Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

There Is No Hell

Try living with Hillary for a short while. Hell. Need I say more?...

[PetroniusMaximus]

"God doesn't send people to Hell. They send themselves there."

While it's a nice sentiment, it isn't strictly true. God take the active role in the destruction of the unrighteous.



Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2 Thes 1
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[TFMcGuire]

Right!

Cooper's Golden Law in part: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense...."

Not too many biblical literalists list the doctrine of hell as their favorite---eternal judgment is terrible to contemplate. We believe it simply because we have spent all our lives loving and believing the One who cannot lie and studying His Word.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"There Is No Hell"


Add that to the list of "Famous Last Words".

[Quix]

Christ and Scripture talked rather much about hell and satan.

God gave man the capacity to disagree.

Disagreement with THE BOSS is not advised.

[PetroniusMaximus]

Quix! Where have you been? Good to "see" you!

[pcottraux]

God take the active role in the destruction of the unrighteous.

But they're the ones who choose to be unrighteous; therefore it's their own faults and not God's. Because God has no fault. It's their destruction they bring upon themselves.

I wasn't implying that people actually jump into Hell voluntarily.

[Salvation]

Oh, yes there is!