Pre-Trib Rapture Arguments

Right now there is huge debate going on about whether the church will go through the tribulation. After studying some passages that seem to convincingly lean toward a pre-trib rapture. First of all, Jesus in Luke 17:26, states that "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man." We learn of two key individuals during that time Enoch and Noah. Enoch who some have seen as a type of the church is translated before the Flood while Noah is delivered through the world-wide judgment.

We also find in Luke 12:37-40 gives evidence it could happen at second or third watch like a thief and to be ready since the Son of man comes at an hour when you don't think He will come. Jesus further exhorts that servants may start treating fellow servants harshly and getting drunk. The lord will come in a day when he looks not for him and at an hour when he is not aware. This seems to suggest some semblance of peace since drunkeness occurs in this case with ease. In fact, the servant has said in his heart, "My lord delays in his coming"; These give the appearance of a lack of persecution going on world-wide since the servant is not watching. With persecution, there would be no time for drunkeness since people would be hiding for their lives.

In I Thess. 5:2, the Apostle Paul states that "the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night." What does a professional thief do? He plunders the house without the occupants waking up until morning to find their valuables gone. Again there is calm while the robbery is taking place. Furthermore Paul states, they shall say Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as birth pains upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. This seems to indicate there is a them and us. Sudden destruction on them but you are not surprised. In vs. 9, 10 he states "For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. The tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb so why would the Jesus put wrath of His spiritual body after His physical body experienced God's wrath.

Also, in II Thess. we find that the Holy Spirit with whom believers are sealed with is prevent the mystery of iniquity to work fully. The Holy Spirit must be taken out of the way before the wicked one "Anti-christ" is revealed. All mention of the churches goes silent after chapter 3 of Revelation while the man of peace (Anti-christ)on the white horse shows up in Rev. 6. The last church (Laodicean church) is not looking for the rapture. Also, Christ states to the church of Philadelphia that he will keep them from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Tribulation)

No, the truth is we must watch and be ready for Christ's imminent return. I believe the rapture will be a cataclysmic event that make the world beg for a ruler of peace to calm down the world. God likes to have major events to display His power so it would seem likely that the Tribulation will begin with the vanishing of Christ's spiritual body which states in Romans 11:25 requires the fulness of the Gentiles be come in before it happens which is when God will take away the blindness of Israel. Right now, when a google search is done, one can see many people turning to christ. The harvest rate is accelerating. Jesus at Rev. 22:20 says, "Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Obviously after:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I was always pre-trib. What I found when we did a study starting in Rev. is that every time reference, and I mean every single time reference when the return of Jesus is mentioned, is after the tribulation.
The typical "rapture" verse given as proof is:

1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice that there is no specific time reference given there either.

The thousand years in Rev 20:5 the Millennial reign true. But that is the "rest of the dead" or those who do not know Jesus as their Savior, who won't live until ater this 1000 years. This is for sure Scripture supporting a pre-Millennial resurrection. The ressurection he spoke of in verse 20 is definately after the tribulation, before the 100 year reign, and definately people who have accepted Jesus as their Savior. It is also referred to as the FIRST resurrection.

GE

The chief text to refute the rapture doctrine is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

First: The Quiet Coming. Rapturists teach that they will be quietly, mysteriously taken away. Presto, they will become invisible! Actually, the second coming will be quite a noisy affair. Paul says the Lord will "descend... with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God." Peter says "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" (2 Peter 3:10/. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." There is no room for a hushed up rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Second: The Two Comings. Those pregnant with visions of rapture expect their deliverance in the first stage of a two-part coming or the first of two comings. Well, whatever. Their idea is that stage number two occurs after the seven years of tribulation when the Lord shall return to set up His kingdom on earth. (Compare that with 1 Cor. 15:24-28/. But the context of 1 Thessalonians 4 is a stubborn thing. Men divided the Bible into chapters and verses, so we often separate areas that are kin to one another. Continue reading into 1 Thessalonians 5. But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief.
Obviously, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4 is at least contextually related. Compare the comforting conclusions of 1 Thessalonians 4:18, "Wherefore, comfort one another with these words," and 1 Thessalonians 5:11, "Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do." So, when the Lord combs and the righteous are "caught up," at the same time the wicked will be overtaken and destroyed. This is also the teaching of 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10:
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe because our testimony among you was believed in that day.
God is going to repay tribulation to the troublers. He is going to repay rest (a noun, not a verb) to the troubled. But when?
(1) "When the Lord shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them (the sinners)" and (2) "when he shall be glorified in his saints. . . in that day." (3) "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col. 3:4). But what about the wicked? They are not in Colossians 3:4. Yes, but they are in 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.
(4) Both the righteous and the wicked are in Matthew 16:27. "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." So, when the Lord comes with the angels, then (not later) He shall reward every man knot part, not some/, but "then," "every man." There is no sequential, sectional coming; hence, no rapture. Truly, "there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" (Acts 24:15).

Are you amazed, all ye that await your rapture? Well, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, into the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." >Observe that the "shout" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is the "voice" of John 5:28. Do you see the implications of that conclusion?

Now, place all these cited and related passages together. If you come up with (1) a separate coming of the Lord for the saints only, (2) seven years of. tribulation on earth; (3) another coming of the Lord and the beginning of a 1,000 year reign on earth, then you are reading ideas for -which there are no words of the Lord.
Third: The Duration. The third rupture imagination is seen in its duration. Rapturists say the saints will soar to meet the Lord in the air for seven heavenly years before being hauled back to earth for 1,000 earthly years. That is not what 1 Thessalonians 4 teaches. It says that after the righteous are raised "so shall we ever be with the Lord." To suit their dream, it should say, "so shall we be for seven years with the Lord." As the righteous shall "ever be with the Lord," so the destruction of the wicked will be unending. The wicked "shall not escape," and they "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord." The "everlasting destruction" (2 Thess. 1:9) is equivalent to the "ever be" with the Lord (1 Thess. 4:17). The destruction, like the deliverance, is final, total, eternal. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25:41). Fourth: The Visible Coming. The wicked will not see the Lord when He comes to rapture the righteous, or so say the premillennialists. How do we account for this blatant blindness? We are told that the Lord is coming for His saints (the rapture) and then He will come with His saints (the second coming. The first time He will not be seen or manifested, but He will be seen the second time. No such distinction is taught in the New Testament. Both the "alive and the dead" will be judged "at his appearing" (2 Tim. 4:1). Both the wicked and the righteous will see Jesus when He comes. "When he shall appear, " the righteous will see Him (Col. 3:4; 1 Pet. 5:4; 1 Jn. 2:28; 3:2). "When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven," the wicked will see Him, or else the word "revealed" means concealed.

Nowhere that I am aware of. However,

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You will notice in verse 30 that all the tribes of earth morn when they see the Son of Man coming and THEN he gathers his elect

That still does not authorize us to insert a time frame that is never mentioned.

2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Let me also ask of you then, where does it ever give a time of before the triblation?

Cordially,
GE

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