Posted on 01/10/2006 10:31:21 AM PST by Theoden
Hi everyone, I need some informational help in regards to conservative seminaries, preferably in the New Jersey area, but anywhere in the US is fine. I was hoping that some of my fellow Catholics here would be able to provide me with the info I need.
Answers:
1. If I do become a priest, I want to join a very conservative/traditional/orthodox seminary. I will be taking Latin classes this summer, and if I become ordained, I want to try and have at least 1 Mass in Latin. I was hoping some of you can help me out with names of very good seminaries, and some info about them.
Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), if you want a Latin Mass otherwise you are at the mercy of the Bishop.
2. I was wondering, roughly, how much a priest makes in stipends each year. I know they do not pay for food/shelter, but I know they get money each year, almostlike a salary. Also, would a priest be restricted from having any kind of money making job on the side, lets say, like being a part time accountant.
It varies from Diocese to Diocese (Boston $24,500)Diocesab Priests and FSSP Priests do not take a vow of poverty. Some write books, others teach....Military Chaplains get the pay rate of their Grade.
Realistically though, if you're worried about the money, you're looking for reasons no.
3.The Sovereign Military Order of Malta. It has been a dream of mine to joing the Knights of Malta, and I know it is an elite organization, and mostly rich people are a part of it. I have researched them and have checked out their site, but I am still not sure if a priest can join, or if it is strictly a lay-man's order. If anyone knows, I would greatly appreciate the info.
Priest are allowed to join.
4. Myself. I am not a saint by any stretch of the imagination. I harbour a lot of anger against Islam and many other people on an individual basis, including some other Christians. My mom's side of the family is Scandinavian, and they are a mix of Lutherans, Pentocaustals and Born-Agains. They do not like Catholics at all, and feel free to share their views of our faith right in front of us, and even in our own house. I love them and all, but they, and from what I have seen here on FR, have an extreme, almost loathing view of Catholics, and will not change. They commonly make snide or inflamatory remarks, and then walk away from the conversation so they don't have to hear anything from us. This infuriates me, and I am quite tired of turning the other cheek simply to "keep the peace" in the family. My dad is Irish-Catholic, and I know that they just barely tolerate him, and hold him responsible for my mom converting. I get the feeling that they are turning against me now, since I am standing up for my religion, and because I joined the Knights of Columbus.I hope you can pray for me, so that I can be much more forgiveing, and that I lose my anger. I don't like being angry like this, but I can't seem to help it.
No offense, but this question is kind of silly. You become a Priest for God and His Church not Mom and Dad.
5. Are there any lists around, that provide the do's and don'ts, so to speak, of the clergy? Such as, are priests allowed to own firearms, go to the bar, etc. I am very right wing, and I am very political. I really don't want to give up these things.
Yes, you can go to the bar...and would recommend it, because that's where your parishioners would be....in fact the Sem will probably have it's own. Firearms hunting etc also allowed....the dos and don't will be self evident through your prayer life.
6.If after I am ordained, and something happens that changes my life, like me meeting a great woman, would I be allowed to leave the clergy and honorably attend church, or would I face a penalty, such as excommunication?
If you become a Priest you'll meet lots of great women, so until you know if you can live celibately don't present yourself....it's not a decision you have to make now, that is why sems require 4-8 years.
Based on the questions, probably not right now. Get yourself a Spiritual Director (a Priest not some woman with an M.Div.)
Priests don't make much at all. Secular(diocesan) clergy are allowed to own property, but any money they have is likely be from their pre-seminary lives or from an inheritance.
I don't remember if part-time work is expressly forbidden--Jesuits tend to have lots of priests with their own work--but you'll be a priest 24/7/365. There will be days when you're on call like a doctor for people on the edge of death. Any jobs will be "hobbies."
If after I am ordained, and something happens that changes my life, like me meeting a great woman, would I be allowed to leave the clergy and honorably attend church, or would I face a penalty, such as excommunication?
Laicization would be the only thing that would allow you to leave the priesthood, and the Vatican has been very stingy about granting such things in the past two decades.
I dobut this is true in fact, but your post sometimes sounds like you're placing conditions on what kind of priestly life you'd accept. If you really have all these "conditions" you need to have met, you need to reconsider whether you're really fit to adopt the *sacrificial* state of life that is the priesthood. A lot of this reconsideration can take place in the seminary, of course.
If you have serious trouble, theological or otherwise, with your bishop or your pastor or various other priests, you'll have to get over that right quick. Any clerical life is one of special obedience, and you can't obey easily if you're constantly hunting for heresies or liturgical missteps among your superiors. Likewise, you'll likely be serving with such bishops or priests throughout your life.
Are you in contact with your diocese's vocation office? I find it very odd that you come to FR for this kind of information. If you don't go through a religious order, you'll likely be applying as a candidate for your diocese.
You'll also need letters of recommendation from a few priests, and since you're asking about this on FR, it looks like you need to get to know some. They'd be better sources of information, too.
Anyway, the biggest Latin Mass community is the FSSP, whose seminary has a web site here. This is a fraternity and not a religious order, so I believe priests are under the authority of their local bishop and not an FSSP superior.
Many priests have a career that goes with (is part of?) their priestly vocation, obvious examples being teachers and writers, but I'm sure there are many others, though I don't know which are most common.
Having interest in women is obviously perfectly healthy at this point, and who knows, your vocation could be as a husband and father; but similar to a wedding vow being made for life, a vow of priestly celibacy, once made, is meant to last the rest of your life.
I don't find it odd. As a single male Catholic, I can tell you the second 'priest' or 'seminary' is uttered in the context of your vocation you're subjected to a stampede of priests, nuns, and devout ladies pressuring you and promising daily prayers for you etc etc etc. It's a much worse atmosphere than buying a used car, and imo not conducive to the proper prayerful consideration of one's vocation, priestly or otherwise.
http://www.franciscanfriars.com/
Please check them out and set up a meeting. They are right here in NYC. I am sure they will gladly welcome you to dicuss many of your issues.
I'm not an expert, so forgive me this post, but it seems to me that God will take care of your financial concerns. In becoming a priest, you are "taking nothing with you", as Jesus sent out His disciples. From what I've noticed of priests whom I deeply respect, they have given themselves entirely to the Church. Your accounting skills would be extremely useful at the diocesan level, but if you're thinking about a side-job for supplemental income, I would sincerely reflect on what you believe is calling you to the priesthood. Are you prepared to be told, "no, you can't do accounting work on the side"? Will your heart be lured away from your priestly office when you consider what you can make at your side-job on a fulltime basis?
As for girls, I suspect you will have your share of opportune encounters with women during your training. God works in mysterious ways, so don't discount the possibility that God will challenge your committment with the people he will bring into your life. If you are truly called, you will be at peace with the thought of celibacy, when the time comes to make a decision. If you're not, it's okay, at least you know you're probably not called. Better to make peace with it one way or another before being ordained, for obvious reasons!
Absolutely, positively, get yourself a spiritual advisor. Don't be afraid to talk to your priest! So what if he gets his hopes up? In the end, if he's doing his job, he wants the will of God for you. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but by all means, consult your priest, and do yourself a favor: begin praying regularly to St. John Vianney.
Good luck in your investigation of the priesthood! I will say prayers for you. Remember, Peter and Andrew, James and John had to leave their nets behind to follow Christ. Don't be afraid of facing the possibility of changes that may be required in your life in going down this road. Jesus walks with you, brother!
God's blessings.
Your hit the nail on the head! The Monsignor at my church who has already put some pressure on me is also in charge of a large council (I forget the name) that deals with vocations. I can assure you that the moment I mention to him that I am even considering the priesthood, I will be inundated by others. It will be worse than the military recruiters.
2. I was wondering, roughly, how much a priest makes in stipends each year. I know they do not pay for food/shelter, but I know they get money each year, almostlike a salary. Also, would a priest be restricted from having any kind of money making job on the side, lets say, like being a part time accountant.
The stipend will logically vary based on the diocese where you work. You will also make some monies from wedding stipends, etc. As to making money on the side, there are plenty of priests who do so, but their side work are something that is part of their ministries, such as teaching theology, royalties from book sales, honoraria from speaking/ parish missions, etc. I don't know of any priests who would have secular jobs on the side.
4. Myself. I am not a saint by any stretch of the imagination. I harbour a lot of anger against Islam and many other people on an individual basis, including some other Christians. My mom's side of the family is Scandinavian, and they are a mix of Lutherans, Pentocaustals and Born-Agains. They do not like Catholics at all, and feel free to share their views of our faith right in front of us, and even in our own house. I love them and all, but they, and from what I have seen here on FR, have an extreme, almost loathing view of Catholics, and will not change. They commonly make snide or inflamatory remarks, and then walk away from the conversation so they don't have to hear anything from us. This infuriates me, and I am quite tired of turning the other cheek simply to "keep the peace" in the family. My dad is Irish-Catholic, and I know that they just barely tolerate him, and hold him responsible for my mom converting. I get the feeling that they are turning against me now, since I am standing up for my religion, and because I joined the Knights of Columbus.I hope you can pray for me, so that I can be much more forgiveing, and that I lose my anger. I don't like being angry like this, but I can't seem to help it.
Forgive me for saying so, but you need to seriously get over your anger before you even contemplate going into seminary. This is not to say that you need to all of a sudden approve of Islam or protestants, but blanket anger is not a good thing.
5. Are there any lists around, that provide the do's and don'ts, so to speak, of the clergy? Such as, are priests allowed to own firearms, go to the bar, etc. I am very right wing, and I am very political. I really don't want to give up these things.
Look at the Code of Canon Law...and check the rules in your diocese.
6.If after I am ordained, and something happens that changes my life, like me meeting a great woman, would I be allowed to leave the clergy and honorably attend church, or would I face a penalty, such as excommunication?
Once hands are laid on you and you are ordained, you are married to the Church. Don't commit adultery. Ordination can't be undone, so you need to do a whole bunch of praying first before taking this step...
Somebody mentioned the Mount. I'e seen a whole lot of good priests come out of there in recent years.
My suggestions on things you can do now:
Hopefully the message I'm sending is getting through to you: you ABSOLUTELY MUST have a solid, solid prayer life before you ever enter the seminary. That is a MUST! If you don't, you WILL fail.
Final two pieces of advice: don't rush it; pray some more.
Good luck!
I'd also recommend reading some good religious books, like The Imitation of Christ, G.K.Chesterton's very entertaining theological books like "Heretics" or "Orthodoxy", or other books of that sort, perhaps a journal like "First Things".
Roman Catholics aren't the only catholics. Some of the rites in communion with Rome have married priests. Give some thought to that possibility. (BTW -- I'm an ex-catholic, but respect the church as a whole, despite specific show-stopper issues.)
And even if it turns out that you're called to marriage rather than the priesthood, that solid prayer life, devotion to our Lord and His blessed Mother, will stand you in good stead as a husband and father. Having a solid prayer life is vital to any vocation.
He's already a Latin Rite Catholic. Formally transferring to another Rite, which would be required to be ordained, is hard but not impossible. Formally transferring for the purpose of seeking ordination as a married man is basically not done. Not to mention that the Eastern Rites don't ordain married men in the US.
I am confirmed in the Latin right, and I don't think I could transfer to one of the others. I don't think I could ever do so anyway, certainly not in good faith.
The Melkites do.
I think that you will meet a beautiful woman and want to marry her. This is not being worldly. This is what you were made for. If God chooses you specifically to be a priest, you will know it. And if he made you to be a husband and father and to be fruitful and multiply, you will know that too. Either way, it's God's decision for you, and you must not try to right with your left hand if God made you to be right handed. So, talk to God, a lot.
What is it about being a priest that so appeals to you?
From what you have written, I think what appeals is two things. One thing you said: to be able to be inspirational.
The other thing you did not say: to be closer to God all the time.
And the third thing you said but didn't know you said it: to have status and security in the world. The quest for security leads to the question about stipends and side jobs. The quest for status is wrapped up in the Knights Hospitallers. You cannot join them. They have to invite you. And if you are not of a noble family, or a member of the modern nobility of wealth, they will not even know you exist to ask you. The only possibility, then, would be to volunteer to work for them, so that they would come to know of you. You could pour your heart and your time into that service, and then there is a slim chance that you would be invited to join. But probably not unless you have wealth. The Knights support themselves and perform their functions using their own wealth. It is a high status organization.
So, what are you to do?
As to the desire to status, you are to banish that. It is going to be a perpetual stumbling block to you. Rather than think about joining the knights, go an volunteer to clean bedpans and change linens at the nearest nursing home for aged religious. And say prayers with the oldest who cannot speak, and always wash their feet. Do it every day for a year, especially on Friday and Saturday nights when you could be out dating. This will prepare you to do that on Friday and Saturday nights for the rest of your life. After you have utterly humbled yourself for a year, washing the feet of the lifelong faithful who have otherwise been all but forgotten, and contemplated well that their fate is very probably to be yours: to serve others for a whole life, and then to die alone in prayer in a rest home, if you endure it, you will have the proper state of mind to put on the tunic of a Knight Hospitaller (assuming they ever invite you to join, which they will not). And it will embarrass you to wear it.
As to the desire for security and stipend, remember the birds of the air. They reap not, neither do they sow, yet their Father in heaven provides for them all the same. A priest is a charity case. You will live on the charity of others. God is your safety net. You will be poor, and you won't care. Or you will care, in which case God is telling you that your hands were made for different work.
As to being closer to God all the time, you can do this without ordination. The ordained are no closer to God than the unordained. We are all God's children. The ordained have a peculiar function to perform, as the vessel by which sacred elements are lifted up to God. You do indeed have to be ordained as a priest to be that sort of functionary. But that does not make you closer to God. Talk to God now. Do it all the time. Labora pro ora. Then you will be close to God, and you will be able to hear what He has to say to you more clearly.
Assume that there is no security in the priesthood. Assume that there is no honor or distinction in it.
Assume that it will consist of changing bedpans and washing the feet of the forgotten religious, and do you actually go and DO that, not as a penance at all, but as job and spiritual training.
Talk to God continually.
And then do what He tells you to do.
He might tell you that you were not made to be a priest, but a father and a husband.
And he might tell you further, that once you have done your part as the embodiment of Saint Joseph, raising his little lambs up to strength, that you are indeed to stand before the people and inspire them as an ordained minister: a Deacon of the Church.
Or he might show you that the Church is indeed your bride, and you will know this because you will have no regrets.
But you have to talk to him.
Now go wash some feet.
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