[Terriergal]

hmmmm.... I thought he was one of the 'good guys'?

[jjm2111]

bump for later.

[IronManBike]

ping

[Cecily]

Another point of view:

http://www.discernment-ministries.org/AfricaDreamShattered.htm

[wallcrawlr]

At the end of his second sermon last Sunday, he reminded his largely affluent Orange County audience: "Life is not about having more and getting more. It's about serving God and serving others."

That, simply put, is his message. Give your life to God, help others, spread the word.

Serving others is worthy whatever the motive. I sure hope that Pastor Warren leads people to Christ in such a way so people do not get confused that they think they are earning their way to heaven.

[ClearCase_guy]

Bad article.

It takes the time to define what is meant by "Evangelical".
It takes the time to say that "Evangelist" is not the same as "Fundamentalist".
It quotes Warren as saying that "fundamentalism" is an enemy.

But it never defines what he means by fundamentalism.

[My2Cents]

a time of muscular Christianity that cared about every aspect of life

This is true, but I'm not convinced that just because he's built for himself an impressive empire, that this qualifies Warren as the guy who can or should lead 21st Century Christianity into a new "muscular" era.

Thanks for the ping.

[My2Cents]

Warren disses Christian "fundamentalism," but in doing so, he shows ignorance of the history and origin of fundamentalism. Frankly, there are weaknesses and oddities about contemporary "evangelicalism," which Warren identifies with, that should be addressed, and which dictate that one shouldn't throw stones at another group of believers.

[blue-duncan]

We have all taken shots at fundies over many threads on this forum. Just because it's Warren does not make him a bad guy. CC_g on post#6 makes a good observation. Before we jump to conclusions because it's Warren see how he defines fundamentalism. Remember, this is the MSM (Philadelphia Inquirer) that's reporting this and they are no friend of ours, fundie or evangelical.

[carsonfire]

In context, he seems to be talking about fundamentalists as a term for extremists. That is, not someone who has a fundamentalist view of the scriptures, but someone who takes the scriptures as justification to commit violence. Also, in context, he is not isolating Christians, but making a broad statement about extremists of all stripes, including secular extremists.

[RnMomof7]

I have no doubt of the mans salvation, but he compromises the gospel to build his church.

It has been noted he even misquoted scripture to make a point.

I have little respect for his methods and compromises

[ReformedBeckite]

I'm not to excited about Warren either, but I think what Warren is trying to get at when he calls fundamentalists an enemy of the 21st century is that he is referring to the hillbilly type mentality of Christians that exist out there in large numbers. People who go to church because that's the thing to do, people who believe certain things because that's what've they've been taught to believe without ever questioning whether it is the gospel truth or not. People who really don't think though things in life, they just live by there emotions and move with the crowd.

[pajama pundit]

I attended Communion at the National Cathedral last Easter and the sermon was all about how much we (as wealthy, wasteful, and gluttonous Americans) owe the rest of the world, how we should take care of the environment, feed the poor in Africa, "save the whales," etc.

I looked around at the immense structure of the National Cathedral, the opulence, the pretentious (IMO) robes of the pastor, and marveled at the hypocrisy.

SOCIAL GOSPEL vs. Christ’s Commission to the disciples:
Christ did indeed advocate treating others with respect, kindness, and encouragement (emotional and physical). But, His priority was to spread the good news that you can be saved permanently from the troubles in this life by accepting The Messiah as your Savior.

1. The poor will be with us always. Implies just that – we can’t solve the world’s problems.

“While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her." Math. 26.6-10

2. Emphasis – “Preach the gospel” (not solve world hunger, AIDS crisis, etc.)

“Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”
Mark 16.14-15

3. Peter and John didn’t give this man money (or food), but the gift of eternal life. Yes, they healed him, but that was secondary to the most important event – the man believed “in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth” and although he eventually died, he is in heaven today.

1 “Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour (three o'clock in the afternoon),
2 [When] a certain man crippled from his birth was being carried along, who was laid each day at that gate of the temple [which is] called Beautiful, so that he might beg for charitable gifts from those who entered the temple.
3 So when he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked them to give him a gift.
4 And Peter directed his gaze intently at him, and so did John, and said, Look at us!
5 And [the man] paid attention to them, expecting that he was going to get something from them.
6 But Peter said, Silver and gold (money) I do not have; but what I do have, that I give to you: in [the [a]use of] the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk!
7 Then he took hold of the man's right hand with a firm grip and raised him up. And at once his feet and ankle bones became strong and steady,
8 And leaping forth he stood and [b]began to walk, and he went into the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking about and praising God,
10 And they recognized him as the man who usually sat [begging] for alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement (bewilderment, consternation) over what had occurred to him.
11 Now while he [still] firmly clung to Peter and John, all the people in utmost amazement ran together and crowded around them in the covered porch (walk) called Solomon's.
12 And Peter, seeing it, answered the people, You men of Israel, why are you so surprised and wondering at this? Why do you keep staring at us, as though by our [own individual] power or [active] piety we had made this man [able] to walk?
13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified His Servant and [c]Son Jesus [doing Him this honor], Whom you indeed delivered up and denied and rejected and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had determined to let Him go.(A)
14 But you denied and rejected and disowned the Pure and Holy, the Just and Blameless One, and demanded [the pardon of] a murderer to be granted to you.
15 But you killed the very Source (the Author) of life, Whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.
16 And His name, through and by faith in His name, has made this man whom you see and recognize well and strong. [Yes] the faith which is through and by Him [Jesus] has given the man this perfect soundness [of body] before all of you.
17 And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance [not aware of what you were doing], as did your rulers also.
18 Thus has God fulfilled what He foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ (the Messiah) should undergo ill treatment and be afflicted and suffer.
19 So repent (change your mind and purpose); turn around and return [to God], that your sins may be erased (blotted out, wiped clean),” Acts 3.1-19 (Amplified Bible)

[wallcrawlr]

Here another anti-fundie thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1555483/posts


from Jimmy Carter

[Alex Murphy]

"The Gen X-ers are sick and tired of flash and hype and marketing," Miller said. "The soft sell of a Rick Warren is far more attractive to them than a highly stylized TV presentation of the Christian message."

This "soft sell of a Rick Warren" is just another form of the same "flash and hype and marketing" that the article claims the Gen X-ers are sick and tired of. I don't care whether it's Rick, Saddleback, or his publisher that's pushing these sorts of "soft sell" press releases, it's just more flash and hype and marketing.

[wmfights]

BTTT

[TommyDale]

I think the opposition to this apostasy has turned the corner, and the mainstream is finally understanding why there is such concern.

I read a statistic a few days ago that shows that the smaller churches and home churches are actually growing faster than the "megachurches", simply from people being 'purpose driven' from the "megachurch". It was in the same article that talked about going further than taking your children out of public schools -- you also need to take them out of the 'purpose driven' churches. Great column, by the way, by Paul Proctor.

[Not A Snowbird]

hmmmm.... I thought he was one of the 'good guys'?

He is. Misleading headline.

[subterfuge]

Misleading title and it sounds like you fell for it.

Should read: Philly Newrag Hates EVERYTHING Christian

[AlaninSA]

Why is this relevant to Catholics? This guy isn't exactly our cup of theological tea...

[PAR35]

"I'm so tired of Christians being known for what they're against."

He says before launching into a rant against fundamentalist Christians.

The heat he took for only celebrating 51 of the 52 Sundays last year must have stung a little bit.