Posted on 12/26/2005 4:14:15 PM PST by hiho hiho
Can Jesus be the son of God and Joseph?
At Christmas, Christians celebrate the birth of God's only son. Some believers, however, wonder if Jesus Christ is God's son only. The ancient "illegitimacy tradition" and its modern proponents propose that Jesus may have had a human father. That idea upsets one of the central mysteries of the Christian faith—the virgin conception. But it's entirely in keeping with more essential tenets: Jesus' role as the Messiah, and God's love for the poor and downtrodden. What's more, the illegitimacy tradition responds to many strange utterances about Jesus' birth in the Scriptures themselves.
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Can a loyal Christian believe that Christ was not born of a biological virgin? Perhaps it's worth posing a different question: Why is church authority so intent upon Mary's virginity as a historical fact? Would Jesus be any less God's son if he had an earthly father? The central message of the Gospel is that God raised up and redeemed his servant from death by crucifixion—the Roman style of execution reserved for the lowest of the low. Why couldn't God have sent the same message of divine solidarity with the world's outcasts by making a Messiah out of a man whose conception was also taboo?
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
Went to Christmas services at St. Peter's in Talahasee. Seats were totally filled. They had to schedule four services. St. Peter's is an Anglican church - the pastors and the congregation of St. John's Episcopal Church rebelled en masse against the Episcopal Church and left.
Bet St. John's had pleny of open seats.
Yup.
Most appropriately, Arius, the original perpetrator of this heresy was beaten up by St. Nicholas. St. Nick got in trouble for this, but all the bishops responsble for disciplining St. Nicholas had miraculous visions of the Virgin asking for his forgivness...
Hasn't been honest for many years, hence my response.
Chuck, nothing, not a word of Scripture identifies anyone except Jesus as a "son (or daughter) of Mary", or for that matter, as a "son/daughter of Joseph".
You're the person who's insisting on believing in something not in Scripture.
If I were you, I'd consult with a Greek-speaking person before I said that. Just minimal fact-checking: so easy in the age of Internet.
Been there, done that, read jerome's 11 page essay on why until doesn't mean until. Reads like spin. Kind like alot of posts on this thread.
However, I ~do~ like your screen name. It speaks well of you.
1Ti. 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.
The plain text implies that Paul plans different activities for Timothy after he(Paul) arrives.
I pray that someday you will understand the Holy Word of G-d
as G-d plainly intended it and not as it has been redefined
in order to support beliefs that are clearly not in the Holy Word of G-d.
Ps. 146:2 I will praise the LORD all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live.Ps. 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save.
Ps. 146:4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
Ps. 146:5 Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the LORD his God,
Ps. 146:6 the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them — the LORD, who remains faithful for ever.
b'shem Y'shua
Gee, first time I've heard that. :-)
Chuck, nothing, not a word of Scripture identifies anyone except Jesus as a "son (or daughter) of Mary", or for that matter, as a "son/daughter of Joseph".
You're the person who's insisting on believing in something not in Scripture.
84 posted on 12/27/2005 9:41:51 AM MST by Campion
Nice invective; so what's your point?
That's why we don't trust your interpretation of Scripture.
And where (in whatever version of the Bible you're using) does it say that Joseph and Mary had other children?
When Jesus uses the term "brothers and sisters," it's no different than me calling another Knight "brother." That is, we're all brothers and sisters in God's family.
That's, in fact, one of my all-time-faviorite Scripture quotes.
This is the first time, though, that I've ever been told that what it means is "Don't trust Greek-speaking people to understand common Greek conjunctions."
So, who does YOUR interpretation? Or --- wait, I've got it --- you have a miraculously infused knowledge of foreign languages?
Try this one:
Oh, que ganso eu sou.
(It's something I say several times a day!)
Don't you just have to question the Christian intent of one who uses prayer to denigrate another?
My point is that the "brothers and sisters of Jesus" described in Scripture were not biologically children of Mary, and nothing in Scripture indicates that they were. In fact, Scripture identifies the parents of two of them, James and Joses, and neither Mary the mother of Jesus nor Joseph are on the list.
T>That's why we don't trust your interpretation of Scripture.
92 posted on 12/27/2005 10:11:16 AM MST by Titanites
I take G-d at His Word like:
For who is G-d besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except for our G-d (2 Samuel 22:32)
I don't want you to believe me. I want you to be like the Bereans
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character
b'shem Y'shua
than the Thessalonians, for they received the message
with great eagerness and
examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Who authorized you to tell her, or me, or anyone, how God "plainly intended" Scripture to be understood?
If you say, "the Holy Spirit," I'd like to see some objective proof for your claim.
Not really, because after we search the Scriptures, you'll only respect our conclusions we arrive at if they agree with yours.
C>My point is that the "brothers and sisters of Jesus" described in Scripture were not biologically children of Mary, and nothing in Scripture indicates that they were. In fact, Scripture identifies the parents of two of them, James and Joses, and neither Mary the mother of Jesus nor Joseph are on the list.
96 posted on 12/27/2005 10:30:43 AM MST by Campion
I believe you have me confused with someone else. That argument is a spitting contest and not worth exploring. . Miriam needs only be a virgin and of the house of David to fulfill prophesy. There is no requirement that she remain a virgin after Y'shua birth. There is also no requirement that she be sinless. All of that is made up by man. b'shem Y'shua
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