The Earthly Father: What if Mary wasn't a virgin?

Slate ^ | Dec. 22, 2005 | The Rev. Chloe Breyer

[hiho hiho]

Can Jesus be the son of God and Joseph?

At Christmas, Christians celebrate the birth of God's only son. Some believers, however, wonder if Jesus Christ is God's son only. The ancient "illegitimacy tradition" and its modern proponents propose that Jesus may have had a human father. That idea upsets one of the central mysteries of the Christian faith—the virgin conception. But it's entirely in keeping with more essential tenets: Jesus' role as the Messiah, and God's love for the poor and downtrodden. What's more, the illegitimacy tradition responds to many strange utterances about Jesus' birth in the Scriptures themselves.

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Can a loyal Christian believe that Christ was not born of a biological virgin? Perhaps it's worth posing a different question: Why is church authority so intent upon Mary's virginity as a historical fact? Would Jesus be any less God's son if he had an earthly father? The central message of the Gospel is that God raised up and redeemed his servant from death by crucifixion—the Roman style of execution reserved for the lowest of the low. Why couldn't God have sent the same message of divine solidarity with the world's outcasts by making a Messiah out of a man whose conception was also taboo?

[Tax-chick]

I'd always understood (mind you, I'm of that heretical sect known as Episcopalian) that Mary was a virgin when she married (but not necessarily after Jesus' birth).

That's an understandable position based on the texts, especially as we have them in English. I lean to the "stepbrothers" interpretation, myself. I like the idea of St. Joseph as an older man with lots of patience :-).

[Uri’el-2012]

She is also revisiting Nestorianism and re-opening the Council of Ephesus which, made its decision in 431. Not exactly proposing an original question and certainly no need to look very hard for an answer... she need simply go back to the days of the very early church.

14 posted on 12/26/2005 5:49:53 PM MST by silverleaf

She seems steeped in "higher criticism",
but is blissfully and completely unaware
of the Old Testament prophesies.

b'shem Y'shua

[Knitting A Conundrum]

[26]

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,

[27] to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
[28] And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"
[29] But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be.
[30] And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
[31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
[32] He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
[33] and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end."
[34] And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?"
[35] And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born will be called holy,
the Son of God.
[36]

And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.

[37] For with God nothing will be impossible."
[38] And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.
[39]

In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah,

[40] and she entered the house of Zechari'ah and greeted Elizabeth.
[41] And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit
[42] and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
[43] And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
[44] For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy.
[45] And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord."

Luke 1: 26-45

Why should I believe the speculation of some 21st century person playing with heresy instead of Luke?

[Cowboy Bob]

Chloe Breyer is the daughter of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer.

I thought Breyer was Jewish?

[Grut]

If Mary was "forever a virgin," how does one explain the other children she and Joseph had? Like, say, the Apostle James?

Maybe God made her a virgin retroactively? 'Omnipotence' gives pretty good latitude.

[Uri’el-2012]

Luke 1: 26-45

What translation is that ?

b'shem Y'shua

[Mrs. Don-o]

The Muslims believe that Mary was a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus, but they don't believe He was the Son of God. They believe that Allah created Jesus in Mary's womb, just as He created Adam. In other words, Jesus was a creature, ONLY a creature, just like the rest of us.

It is in order to dispel such a misunderstanding that the Nicene Creed states: "Begotten, not made: one in being with the Father." So Jesus is a true son of Mary (truly Man) and the true, only-begotten son of God (truly God.) As for Mary's perpetual virginity: that's why the persecuted 1st-century believers in the catacombs under the city of Rome dared to put inscriptions on the walls like "Beata Maria Semper Virgine."

[El Cid]

The Rev. Chloe Breyer is an Episcopal priest and mother of two. She works at St. Mary's Manhattanville in West Harlem, N.Y., and is the author of The Close: A Young Women's First Year at Seminary.
Chloe Breyer is the daughter of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer.

Oh cripes ... the father of this whack-job heretic is on the Supreme Court? Well ... I hope he does a better job of interpreting the Constitution than he did raising a 'God-fearing', Bible-believing daughter ... but somehow I think they both believe in 'living', maleable, historical documents - that are open-season for their interpretations...
Go Alito!
(and why doesn't the Episcopalian church just turn in their 'Christian' card and call it a day?)

[Uri’el-2012]

h h>Chloe Breyer is the daughter of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer.

CB>I thought Breyer was Jewish?

24 posted on 12/26/2005 6:56:36 PM MST by Cowboy Bob

WiKi

Born to a middle-class Jewish family in San Francisco, California,
Breyer married Joanna Hare, a psychologist and member of the British aristocracy,
in 1967. The couple have three children: Chloe, Nell, and Michael.

B'shem Y'shua

[Tax-chick]

They believe that Allah created Jesus in Mary's womb, just as He created Adam.

Interesting ... I didn't know that.

the persecuted 1st-century believers in the catacombs under the city of Rome dared to put inscriptions on the walls like "Beata Maria Semper Virgine

I didn't know that, either! Of course, the ancient Romans weren't dealing with English translations of Gospels that (after all) had hardly been distributed at that time. I understand how a modern reader, absent other information, could come to the conclusion that Joseph and Mary had other children.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Revised Standard Version. Not the New Revised Standard Version.

[Rosary]

Dumb question-Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN, anyone else who say otherwise utters Blasphemy---and there is enough earthquakes and hurricanes without adding offence to Mary ,and Joseph-and GOD.

[Uri’el-2012]

I didn't know that, either! Of course, the ancient Romans weren't dealing with English translations of Gospels that (after all) had hardly been distributed at that time. I understand how a modern reader, absent other information, could come to the conclusion that Joseph and Mary had other children.

30 posted on 12/26/2005 7:12:12 PM MST by Tax-chick (A child is born in Bethlehem, Alleluia!)

Matthew 1:24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.

Matthew 1:25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

b'shem Y'shua

[Uri’el-2012]

RSV

thanks.

[PAR35]

Heretical Episcopalian priestess ping.

[RobbyS]

How do you know that she and Joseph had other children? There is an old tradition, iaud out in a 2nd Century writing called "The protogospel of St, James" which has it that James and the other brothers were the children of Joseph, but not of Mary.

[papertyger]

Can a loyal Christian believe that Christ was not born of a biological virgin?

No.

Of course, if one follows the tenets of another celebrated theologian most noted for the incisive question "Yea, hath God said...."

[papertyger]

I'd always understood (mind you, I'm of that heretical sect known as Episcopalian) that Mary was a virgin when she married (but not necessarily after Jesus' birth). Was unaware of the nuance - thanks for the explication!

That's one thing I've always heald you in high regard for X...for all your feminine swagger, you never let it leak over into actual vanity.

You really are a jewel.

[hiho hiho]

There is a rather lengthy discussion of this article here:

http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=10535