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To: NYer

For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." In the NewThink of Vatican II, tradition is easily forgotten ...


5 posted on 11/30/2005 6:46:27 PM PST by Ken522
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To: Ken522

But you aren't getting the whole picture -- these non-believers need to first of all, believe, then they need to ask for forgiveness for their sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Then they go on to receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Holy Eucharist and Confirmation.

Come to an Easter Vigil Mass sometime. It is spectacular!


52 posted on 11/30/2005 9:39:03 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Ken522

This has always been taught. This is not "new think"


57 posted on 11/30/2005 10:09:29 PM PST by The Cuban
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To: Ken522; NYer; jude24; jo kus
For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." In the NewThink of Vatican II, tradition is easily forgotten ...

Thank you very much. This is EXACTLY where all this leads when one forgets tradition. Quite frankly I would rather have a horde of faithful traditional Catholics telling me I'm wrong than to have a milktoast religion saying that everyone can be saved if they just do good things.

60 posted on 12/01/2005 4:08:12 AM PST by HarleyD ("Command what you will and give what you command." - Augustine's Prayer)
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To: Ken522
For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." In the NewThink of Vatican II, tradition is easily forgotten ...

Unfortunately, many Catholics got caught up in the polemics against Protestants and took the "outside the Church there is no salvation" the wrong way. Go back to the 200's and see that the Church, which considers Baptism as the gateway into the Church, considered Baptisms by heretics as VALID - and thus imperfectly part of the Church. THAT is our tradition - not casting everyone into hell who does not reside within the visible walls of the Roman Catholic Church.

Regards

67 posted on 12/01/2005 4:52:59 AM PST by jo kus
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To: Ken522

Who's to say what constitutes the Church? Christ alone, I would think...


114 posted on 12/01/2005 7:39:33 AM PST by jcb8199
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To: Ken522

NO suprise here, doctrine being as malleable as it is. Look what happened to meatless-Fridays and infants who died without being baptised. That's because the Catholic Church has the keys, locking and unlocking the gates to hell at a whims notice.

What does the Good Word say, "I AM that I Am and change with the times as others see fit to change me to."


122 posted on 12/01/2005 7:56:20 AM PST by raygun
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To: Ken522
"For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation."

That's true. The error is that some chose to teach people that "the true church" is the ROMAN CC.

The universal (small "c" catholic) church is invisible, because the ekklesia of God are only those in whom the Holy Spirit resides. Only God knows those who are his.

No one but God, himself, knows the difference between the sheep and the goats - the wheat and the chaff. Those who think they can tell the difference - are judging by outward appearances - looking at what people say and what people do - and are making a big mistake.

There were a lot of shocked people standing around when Christ told one of the thieves on the cross that he was among those who were predestined (before the foundation of the world) to be counted among the elect.

175 posted on 12/01/2005 9:24:45 AM PST by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: Ken522
For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." In the NewThink of Vatican II, tradition is easily forgotten

Apparently tradition isn't the only thing forgotten in the Vatican II era, some parts of Holy Scripture seems to be forgotten as well:

Acts 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.

The Apostle Peter speaking about Jesus of course. Not Mohammed, not Buddha, not an ancestor, not a creed, Jesus Christ.

Seems quite plain and clear to me, the great Apostle who Catholics believe was the first Pope of the Church said that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to salvation.

356 posted on 12/02/2005 8:36:13 AM PST by epow ("Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people" Prov. 14:34)
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