Posted on 11/17/2005 4:35:36 PM PST by COBOL2Java
What Is Purgatory Like?
Warm?
Purgatory is not found in the Bible. References to suffering refer to this earth, and trial by fire occurs at the final judgment. Trusting in Christ's shed blood for salvation provides eternal life from the moment you believe. For those who live and walk with Christ, "to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord." We can do nothing to work for our salvation; Christ has paid it all. We need only trust in his blood to cover our sins and repent.
There are two consequences to sin: the guilt and the offense against God. Not only does one have to make a sincere act of contrition to God for the guilt. An obligation to repair the offense against God is also incurred. Why do you think Our Lord told the parable about wicked servant (Matthew 18)? Also, why does Our Lord say, "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. (Matthew 12: 32)"?
Maybe not the explicit word; neither is Bible, Trinity or Incarnation, but the teaching that Purgatory exists is most definitely in Scripture.
So what exactly did the Crucifixion itself accomplish, if not the substitutionary (re)payment of these two things done on our behalf?
> I think it's like Houston.
Really? I thought purgitory [sic] was a home for wayward bulimics. [No flames please...]
Since purgatory is not mentioned even once in all of Scripture, you are free to invent any fantasies that please you. I guess it is like a week without beer.
*That's not in the bible
LOL!
The idea of Purgatory was invented so that people sitting in Hell can pretend that it is only temporary.
Christ paid the price for our sins. I think that anyone who believes that they can atone for their own sins very well may be headed for a place where there will indeed be punishment for their sins, but it will have no atoning effect.
For those who are truly headed for heaven, Christ paid the price and took the punishment for all their sins on the cross. To claim that he did not do enough, to claim that there is still punishment for believers, to claim that it is not a finished work is to disbelieve in Christ. For that sin there will be punishment. It will not be temporary.
Nor is "incarnation" or "bible". But all three are "in" the Sacred Scriptures
References to suffering refer to this earth, and trial by fire occurs at the final judgment.
The Scriptures don't say that our trial by fire will occur at the final judgment. Also, why do people pray for the dead souls? Why does Paul talk about the practice of being baptized for the sake of dead souls who were NOT baptized? Where is the sin that will be forgiven AFTER death forgiven then? Christianity has always believed, through their practice, that there is a third state of existence after death. A place of purgation. A place before we enter heaven. This is historical as well as Biblical.
We can do nothing to work for our salvation; Christ has paid it all.
Ah. Yes, we agree there. But I believe that you misundestand what a "work" is. Paul tells us a work is something we do because we expect payment. Romans 4:4. It is something we do for a wage. NO ONE can obligate God. But Paul NEVER says we must do good deeds. He says we MUST love. So does John and James and Peter. Jesus mentions that as well. WITHOUT LOVE, FAITH IS NOTHING - 1 Cor 13:2. Forget about Once Saved - Always Saved. Paul refutes that in many places, but try reading about all those "saved" people in 1 Cor 10:1-12, our EXAMPLES. I especially direct you to the catch line, 1 Cor 10:12. Persevere, brother. Don't presume.
We need only trust in his blood to cover our sins and repent.
If only it was so easy. If only Christ said to "take the wide path". If only "picking up our cross daily" meant to merely believe on the blood of Christ! You have no idea of what discipleship is...Trusting in God does not lead us to love others, to turn our lives to God entirely. He demands that He reigns in our lives. I trust that my car will start in the morning. That doesn't mean that I let my car direct my life! It is much more than that, brother...
Regards
All of them? So everyone is going to heaven?
I think that anyone who believes that they can atone for their own sins very well may be headed for a place where there will indeed be punishment for their sins, but it will have no atoning effect.
You are confused, because Catholics don't believe we can atone for our own sins. The confusion appears to be in APPLYING the work of Christ to our own subjective situation. Our sins are forgiven conditionally - namely, we must repent, correct? We must repent in the sense of conversion, correct? Otherwise, see my first statement. Hell would be empty.
For those who are truly headed for heaven, Christ paid the price and took the punishment for all their sins on the cross.
Purgatory doesn't deny that. Purgatory is the RESULT of Christ's mercy. He gives us who are imperfect the final opportunity to perfect ourselves - to remove those sinful desires that we continue to fight against. We must become holy to see God. Nothing unclean shall enter heaven. We must be transformed. We do this through God's Spirit and applying the effects of the Passion and Death to ourselves through prayer, through the sacraments, by becoming more virtuous as a result of Christ working within us. But most of us will not complete this transformation here - thus - in God's great mercy, we are given a view of God, the eyeopener, and blessed beyond hope by then cleansing us from our imperfections that still remain.
You really think you will live in God's presence for eternity with sinful desires on your heart? With attachments to creatures or money? Please. God and sin will not co-exist in heaven. And forget about "covering us with the blood of Christ". God is not some old fool who can be tricked into believing we are clean when we are not. God's Word ACCOMPLISHES what it sets out to do - which includes MAKING us holy. Christ's Blood is the REASON why we will be in heaven, but God expects us to willingly BECOME like Him. Without Christ's Blood, we cannot become holy. But holy, we must become. Not pretend holiness.
Regards
So it is not finished.
Always good to hear from the Bible-thumpers!
Evangelicals and fundamentalists always quote this "Bible verse," but it isn't really in the Bible.
Paul writes that he would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord, not that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". Big, big, BIG difference. The first says "[I want] A and B"; the second says "A implies B".
Just a pet peeve of mine. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" is no more found in the Bible than the word "purgatory" is.
The general redemption is finished. The application of the redemption to you as an individual most certainly isn't finished. If it had been finished on Calvary, there would clearly have been no need for you to believe, repent, be baptized, pray, read Scripture, go to church ... etc.
General redemption? So nothing was actually accomplished at the cross? He just kinda laid the groundwork so that you could work your own way to heaven?
Well, you'd better get to work.
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