Posted on 10/24/2005 9:10:02 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past
Not so. Faith is the way to heaven. We are saved by grace through faith. The only "repentance" mentioned in Acts and beyond is a "repentance" concerning the person's belief about the Person of Jesus Christ, in other words, is He who He really says He is, reagarding His Messiahship and unique salvation.
But if you misinterpret this "repentance" as departing from sin, then how do you know when you've departed enough to be "saved"? Did you sin at all today? Will you tomorrow? Will you a split second before you die? It's ludicrous and ridiculous. Repentance is not departing from sin. We're saved by grace through faith, and NOTHING more. Upon the sacrifice of Jesus once and for all do I stand, with NOTHING of my own
Anyway I've been down this avenue on FR religion threads many times, so I won't get much into it. Just what I know in my experience and reading of the Word
Let's just take Revelation alone. You should get a good idea about how non-repentance will hold up before God in Revelation, don't you think?
Revelation 2:5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place--unless you repent. Revelation 2:4-6 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter) Revelation 2:16 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. Revelation 2:15-17 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 2:21 ' I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Revelation 2:20-22 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 2:22 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
Revelation 2:21-23 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. Revelation 3:2-4 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 3:19 ' Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. Revelation 3:18-20 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; Revelation 9:19-21 (in Context) Revelation 9 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts. Revelation 9:20-22 (in Context) Revelation 9 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Revelation 16:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 16 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.
This is the problem with some Protestant theology. You bring up a good point that proves this viewpoint incorrect - for the punishment of sin is eternal damnation...Christ certainly is not in Hell. The Atonement is NOT punitive! Christ is a sin-offering, a propitiation. He satisfies the Almighty Justice of the Father. He offered Himself, He was not punished! He offered His sufferings to open the gates of heaven POTENTIALLY to individual men. This is called vicarious suffering - suffering for the sake of others. Yet, individual men may choose not to accept this sin offering that was made on their behalf. Thus, they cast themselves into a status of eternal separation from God.
God has opened the gate, but He doesn't force us into heaven.
Regards
You're absolutley right...faith is the only way to slavation.
In answering the question "Sin, and What to Do About it," I would say we are admonished to repent wouldn't you. (not that our salvation is dependant upon repentance.)
One aspect we must accept to know God is, God hates sin. How can you have faith in God without accepting your sinfulness, wanting to have that sinfulness removed, and becoming born again a new creature in Christ. That is what faith is about.
Is it your opinion that just because you believe that Jesus (God) is a reality, you are saved? I think one must also realize that, "I am a sinner...I need Christ to save me." To continue practicing your sins is an abomination.
To me the meaning of repentance is to "turn from sin." Does that mean we will never sin again? No - and our salvation is NOT based on perfect performance, but based on the heart decision to hate sin and turn away from "wanting" to commit sin.
Slavation = Salvation.
That was no Fruedian slip - just bad typing.
Oh I sin all the time. Pride is the biggest temptation I have and it can manifest in so many ways. I realize it's a sin...I want to do better. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It doesn't interrupt my salvation.
When I accepted Christ atonement, when I truly recognized my sin and the horror of it...how dispicable it is to God. It made me perfect in His sight....it did not make my actions perfect (and he knows that, thus the sacrifice of his son.) I think the recognition - turning from - is the meaning of repentance. Repentance I think happens once and if you are truly born again it stays.
Now if, for example, you believe in God as a creator and ultimate power, without also believing he hates sin, then you might presume there needs to be no effort on your part...that you can go on with your sinful practices since it doesn't matter anyway. This would indicate to me, that you have NOT been born again...you're not humbled and perfect in Christ. It would be an indication that you think you are the one in power because you can fool people, you can fool God.
Accepting your fallibility isn't the same as flaunting your sin....do you see the difference...repentance is a heart matter, thinking it's okay to sin means your damned. Recognizing you will sin and that you need Christ means you're saved. It's a small difference...but it makes all the difference IMHO.
Uttterly ridiculous. Christ doesn't call for a one-time declaration of "repentance" that does not take into account our future ongoing conversion. Only those who obey the will of the Father will enter heaven, not those who say "Lord, Lord" (Mat 7:21). Recognizing Christ's Passion and Death and its meaning for us DOES NOT necessarily instill within us repentence. Clearly, if one repents of sin in 1990 has little effect on whether you will continue this walk. Proof? Consider Judas Iscariot. Did he not accept Jesus as his Lord and savior and repent from his sins? Wasn't he sent out with power and authority to heal in Christ's name? And yet, what happened to him? Eternal salvation is not guaranteed to anyone. Even your own concept ("This would indicate to me, that you have NOT been born again") precludes this. How do YOU know YOU are not going to become one of those who "really wasn't born again"? So much for the guarantee of eternal salvation...
And finally, NO ONE is perfect in God's sight on this earth! Just because you think that Christ died for your sins doesn't make you pleasing to God!
Recognizing you will sin and that you need Christ means you're saved.
"Saved" means to be healed, also. It doesn't ONLY mean to receive eternal salvation. Recognition of sin doesn't mean we are healed. Repentance and conversion is our indication that we are healed. What's the point of recognition if you don't intend to change?
Regards
Isn't this exactly what I said? I recognize that I'm not the most erudite person here on the religion thread, but I think if you read my post again you'll find that we agree.
This is what I posted...."Accepting your fallibility isn't the same as flaunting your sin....do you see the difference...repentance is a heart matter, thinking it's okay to sin means your damned."
Regards
I liked your statement about constant conversion....because it IS a process.
I think we agree if someone says "I sin, so what?" then Houston we have a problem!
Roger that!
Regards
These are the issues that are NEVER answered by your type. You can cut/paste verses, but you can't apply them. Answer these types of questions. If you can't, then you're just a fear monger, trying to get everyone to "repent", in some way that you yourself CAN'T.
and our salvation is NOT based on perfect performance, but based on the heart decision to hate sin and turn away from "wanting" to commit sin.
That sounds noble, but in reality, it is NOWHERE in the Bible that I must have such a perfect way of seeing things, to be saved. In reality, you have it backwards. I am saved ONLY by faith in Christ. During my life, He shows me the errors and tragedy of a life of sin, and that drives me to hate sin, but I wasn't saved by that hate of sin. I was saved ONLY by His precious death and resurrection from the dead.
To add ANYTHING, no matter how "noble" it sounds, is to cheapen His precious work for salvation.
When I accepted Christ atonement, when I truly recognized my sin and the horror of it...how dispicable it is to God. It made me perfect in His sight....it did not make my actions perfect (and he knows that, thus the sacrifice of his son.) I think the recognition - turning from - is the meaning of repentance. Repentance I think happens once and if you are truly born again it stays.....
........that you can go on with your sinful practices since it doesn't matter anyway. This would indicate to me, that you have NOT been born again...you're not humbled and perfect in Christ.
I don't see how my statement taken in a whole disagrees with yours. I was talking about repentance not salvation.
Man, you people are tough...you twist what's been said into some semblance of something you can argue with. Good luck with that!
Mormons have faith in Christ. They believe he was a type of God and have FAITH that he was born to atone for our sins and give us the gift of resurrection.
But believing in Jesus Christ is not quite the same for Mormons as for the rest of Christians. Now....justify your statement to me that faith is all you need.
I agree with you on MacArthur. I started listening to him around 1995 or so. I had a second job and it took me a half hour to drive home and he was on the radio at 10pm so listening to him made the drive that much better. I think his main problem with the reliogious/political activism is that the churches (left and right) that are involved in this usually pound on the sins that they don't do. For example, a church might preach against homosexuality but may not preach to much against divorce (don't want to make our top donor CEO's and the 3rd trophy wives upset now do we. lol). Also I get the impression his church has seen many homosexuals repent of their sins and left homosexuality and become christians. Maybe he feels that would not have happened if he had been heanily involved in politics.
Hmmmmmmmmm, as I said, good luck with that.
Jesus said, "love one another." and "Judge not that ye be not judged...."
Sin means "missing the mark." Which we all do, ALL of us...an alcoholic is in no worse position than the rest. Why do you continue to use him as an example?
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