Sin, And What To Do About It

Grace To You, GTY.org and OnePlace.com ^ | September 23, 2005 | John MacArthur

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

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Sin, and What to Do About It
by: John MacArthur

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On January 16, 2003, the space shuttle Columbia lifted off for what was supposed to be a routine flight. Shortly after lift-off a piece of insulating foam from the shuttle's external fuel tanks broke off and struck Columbia's left wing. This action was caught on video, but it was presumed that no serious damage had occurred. However, serious damage had occurred. The foam from the fuel tanks punctured the wing's thermal protection system.

The seriousness of the damage became evident when Columbia reentered the earth's atmosphere on February 1. The damaged wing was no longer protected from the extreme heat caused during reentry. The shuttle disintegrated in midair killing all seven astronauts. NASA's failure to correctly assess the damage prevented it from taking action that could have avoided the devastating results.

Mankind faces a similar but even more tragic situation. Shortly after creation, Adam sinned. With Adam as the head, the whole human race fell under God's condemnation. Sin now rules every unregenerate heart, and if it had its way, it would destroy and damn every soul.

What Does God Think About Your Sin?
If you refuse to see your sin as God does, you cannot escape His eternal judgment. If you want to deny your guilt or hide your own sinfulness, you'll never discover the cure for sin. And if you try to justify your sin, you'll forfeit the justification of God. Until you understand how offensive your sin is before God, you can never know Him.

Sin is abominable to God-He hates it (cf. Deuteronomy 12:31). Sin is contrary to His nature (Isaiah 6:3; 1 John 1:5). It stains the soul and degrades humanity's nobility. Scripture calls sin "filthiness" (Proverbs 30:12; Ezekiel 24:13; James 1:21) and likens it to a putrefying corpse-sinners are the tombs that contain stench and foulness (Matthew 23:27). The ultimate penalty-death-is the consequence of sin (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; Romans 6:3). The human race is in bad shape.

God wants you to understand how bad sin is and how terrifying its consequences are. You dare not take sin lightly or dismiss your own guilt frivolously. Quite the contrary-you should hate sin.

But sin tempts the best of saints, and even the godliest among us commit sin. David was a man who followed after God with all his heart (1 Kings 14:8); and yet he entered into temptation and committed unimaginable sin-adultery, deception, betrayal, and murder. And until God confronted David through the prophet Nathan, David denied his sin. That's the natural tendency of every fallen sinner.

What Do You Think About Your Sin?
If a man of David's caliber can fall so terribly, where does that leave you and me? If you're honest, you'll admit that you sometimes love your sin, delight in it, and seek opportunities to act it out. You know instinctively you are guilty before a holy God, yet you inevitably attempt to camouflage or disavow your sinfulness. In a word, you deny it, just like David did.

Like the rest of fallen humanity, your denial of sin falls into three general categories: you seek to cover it up, you try to justify yourself, and, most often, you are oblivious to your sin.

First, you try to cover up. That's what King David tried to do when he sinned against Uriah. He had committed adultery with Uriah's wife, Bathsheba. When she became pregnant, David first plotted to make it seem as if Uriah was the father of the baby (2 Samuel 11:5-13). When that didn't work, he schemed to have Uriah killed (vv. 14-17). That only compounded his sin.

For all the months of Bathsheba's pregnancy, David continued to cover his sin (2 Samuel 11:27). Later, when David repented, he confessed, "When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; my vitality was drained away as with the fever heat of summer" (Psalm 32:3-4).

Second, you attempt to justify yourself. Adam blamed Eve, whom he described as "the woman whom You gave to be with me" (Genesis 3:12, emphasis added). In blaming Eve, Adam was blaming God too. God, he reasoned, was responsible for the woman who victimized him.

You also try to excuse your wrongdoing by saying it's someone else's fault. Or you argue that you have a valid reason for sin. You convince yourself that it's OK to return evil for evil (cf. Proverbs 24:29; 1

Thessalonians 5:15; 1 Peter 3:9). You can call sin a sickness, a mental condition, or a hormone imbalance; you can excuse yourself as a victim; you can even deny what you've done is really wrong. Your sinful heart is endlessly creative in finding ways to justify its own evil.

Third, you can be oblivious to your own sin. Whether in ignorance or presumption, you sin, and you sin often. That's why David prayed, "Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults. Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins" (Psalm 19:12-13). It's those "hidden faults" that God sees in plain daylight, and they are just as offensive to Him as the "presumptuous sins." Because sin is so pervasive, you naturally tend to be insensitive to your own sin, just as a skunk is impervious to its own odor.

What Are You Going to Do About Your Sin?
Sin is a horrible malignancy for which there is no human cure. It is an incurable leprosy of the soul (Isaiah 1:4-6), and all humanity is sick with it from top to bottom, inside and out.

As a sinner, you cannot improve your own condition. Jeremiah 13:23 says, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Your tears and sorrow can't atone for your sin. Your "good" deeds can't make amends for your wrong against God. Your prayers and personal devotion can't soften your guilt or cover it in any way.

And don't buy into the erroneous concept of purgatory-the fires of hell over a million lifetimes could never purify the soul from its own corruption or atone for its own sin. If you are looking for a do-it-yourself solution to the problem of sin, you only shackle yourself all the more securely to your guilt.

But there has to be a solution to our problem; there must be a way God can satisfy His perfect righteousness and still display His rich mercy toward sinners. I'm delighted to tell you that there is a solution to the human sin problem-it's called the Gospel. The cross of Christ provided the way to God by enabling the only acceptable Sacrifice to atone for human sin once for all.

Our Lord, the sinless One, was the Lamb of God offered as a perfect sacrifice for sin (John 1:29)-it was the very purpose for which He came. "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin" (1 John 3:5). Isaiah prophesied, "Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried…He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him" (Isaiah 53:4-5, emphasis added).

Jesus Christ "offered Himself without blemish to God" to cleanse our consciences (Hebrews 9:14). He paid the penalty to the fullest on our behalf. All the sins of everyone who believes are imputed to Christ, and He died for them. Jesus then rose from the dead to declare His victory over sin and death-"[He] was delivered up because or our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification" (Romans 4:25).

Furthermore, God reckons all believers righteous in Christ-He accounts Christ's righteousness to the believer. That's the truth taught in 2 Corinthians 5:21: "[God] made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

God redeems those who believe and makes them new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). If you are a believer, you know what I'm talking about. God gave you an entirely new nature, including a love for righteousness and hatred for sin.

If you're unsure of your salvation, reading this should bring you to the point of despair. What can you possibly do to change your hopeless condition? Nothing. You are utterly dependent on God's mercy. But if the cry of your heart is something akin to that of the Philippian jailer who said, "What must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30), take heart-the Spirit of God is already working in you! Here is Jesus' clear and concise command to the troubled sinner: "Repent and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

To repent is to "turn away from all your transgressions" (Ezekiel 18:30). It means confessing and forsaking your iniquities (Proverbs 28:13), and completely hating your sin (2 Corinthians 7:11). If repentance stresses turning away from sin and self, believing emphasizes what to turn toward-"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved" (Acts 16:31).

You can't lay hold of Christ while still clinging to your sin. Unless you pry your heart from the passing pleasures of sin, you'll never see God. God's salvation from the flames of an eternal hell involves a glorious liberation from the control of sin.

That's good news! You can be set free from sin's dominion of your life. Take hold of Christ, and take this gospel offer seriously. It may be your last opportunity!

Adapted from The Vanishing Conscience © 1995 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.

• Grace to You (Friday, September 23, 2005)

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[murphE]

Sin, And What To Do About It

This is a good place to start:

The Sinner's Guide

[joesbucks]

What is meant by Calvinist and how does that translate to what most evangelicals believe.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

All right, I've been reminding myself of some of these terms and concepts. I find theology very interesting, but I haven't studied some of this stuff in awhile so I forget.

You might enjoy this source:

Atonement (Satisfaction view)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jump to: navigation, search

The Satisfaction view of the atonement (also known as the penal or punishment theory) is a doctrine in Christian theology related to the meaning and effect of the death of Jesus Christ and has been traditionally taught in both Catholic, Lutheran, and Reformed circles. Drawing primarily from the works of Anselm of Canterbury and John Calvin, the satisfaction theory teaches that Christ was punished as a substitute on behalf of humankind so that the demands of divine justice could be met, and humans could thus be reconciled to God.

Contents

• 1 Anselm & Catholicism
• 2 Calvin & Calvinism
• 3 Opposing views
• 4 See also
• 5 External links
  • 5.1 Pro
  • 5.2 Con

[edit]

Anselm & Catholicism

• Anselm of Canterbury & Cur Deus Homo
• Thomas Aquinas & the Summa Theologica

[edit]

Calvin & Calvinism

• John Calvin & the Institutes of the Christian Religion

[edit]

Opposing views

• The Early Church & the Ransom view
• Pierre Abélard & the Moral Influence view
• Hugo Grotius, John Miley & the Governmental view

[edit]

See also

• Atonement
• Atonement (Governmental view)
• Justification (theology)
• Sin
• Substitutionary atonement

[edit]

External links

[edit]

Pro

• "Penal Substitution" by Greg Bahnsen (Calvinist view)
• "The Judicial and Substitutionary Nature of Salvation" by Greg Bahnsen
• "The Atonement" by John Murray
• "Christ Our Penal Substitute" by R. L. Dabney
• "The Satisfaction of Christ" from Charles Hodge's Systematic Theology (part 3, chapter 7), describing the Calvinist and Lutheran view
• "Theories of the Atonement" from Hodge's Systematic Theology (part 3, chapter 9), discussing other theories of the atonement from the Calvinist/Lutheran perspective

[edit]

Con

• The Incompatibility of Satisfaction theory with God's Government by J. Kenneth Grider
• Substitution in Suffering by John Miley
• Theory of Satisfaction by John Miley

This Christianity-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_%28Satisfaction_view%29"

Categories: Christianity-related stubs | Theology | Christian theology | Catholic doctrines | Lutheranism | Calvinism | Christian evangelicalism

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Now, back to how both are true.....I've got to study it some more. LOL! Not everyone sees it as a conflict, but I am unable to explain it to you. If I find a clear explanation, I'll let you know.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I don't think all my links work in that other post, so just go to the page here

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

What is meant by Calvinist and how does that translate to what most evangelicals believe.

Web definitions:

Calvinism: "the theological system of John Calvin and his followers emphasizing omnipotence of God and salvation by grace alone"

Arminianism: " The extension of the views of late sixteenth-century Dutch theologian Jacob Arminius (Arminius' views were somewhat more Reformed than those of his successors). Arminianism generally holds that man is not totally depraved, that God chooses men to salvation on the basis of some foreseen faith or goodness in them, that Christ died in order to save every man, that God's grace and will can be resisted, and that Christians can forfeit their salvation. ..."

A Comparison:

 

  

 

A Brief Comparative Study of:
Arminianism and Calvinism

 
 
  

Arminianism	Calvinism
Free-Will or Human Ability Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner posses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.	Total Inability or Total Depravity Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God.
Conditional Election God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do. The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.	Unconditional Election God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner's choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
Universal Redemption or General Atonement   Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.	Particular Redemption or Limited Atonement   Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them. His death was substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation, including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
The Holy Spirit Can Be Effectually Resisted    The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) proceeds and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.	The Efficacious Call of the Spirit or Irresistible Grace  In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.
Falling from Grace  Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc. All Arminians have not been agreed on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in Christ - that once a sinner is regenerated, he can never be lost.	Perseverance of the Saints  All who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ, and given faith by the Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God and thus persevere to the end.

 

According to Arminianism:

Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond) - man's response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, "choose" to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man's will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be recipients of the gift of salvation. 

According to Calvinism:

Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the Triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.

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The following material was taken from The Five Points of CALVINISM  - Defined, Defended, Documented.   David N. Steele and Curtis Thomas, are Baptist ministers in Little Rock, Arkansas. Their contrast of the Five Points of Calvinism with the Five Points of Arminianism is the clearest and most concise form found for the edification of the average student. It is also included as an Appendix in, Romans: An Interpretive Outline by the same authors. Each of these books is published by the Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Phillipsburg, N.J.

For a more indepth statement of the above comparison, go to the "Canons of the Synod of Dordt" link below.

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  DISCUSS THIS TOPIC
    Please join others who have commented upon this and other topics in our Discussion Group.

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Return to the Main Highway 

Definite Atonement and the Gospel

Canons of the Synod of Dordt

Calvinism and the Reformed Faith Index

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I think this is the Calvinist answer to your question:

The Efficacious Call of the Spirit or Irresistible Grace

In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace, therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended.

So there is an external, universal call, and an internal call made by the Holy Spirit only to the elect.

[Colin MacTavish]

"the satisfaction theory teaches that Christ was punished as a substitute on behalf of humankind so that the demands of divine justice could be met, and humans could thus be reconciled to God."

Yeah, this part. If God punished Christ as a man's substitute, and he punished him for all of his crimes done and those yet to be done, then what exactly does man still owe God that keeps him out of heaven?

If you answer nothing, then how can the atonement be punitive in nature and also universal and unlimited? If it were, then it would mean that God is punishing 2 people for the same sins. Where is the justice in that?

Just curious. I've been studying some theology and can't seem to get some of these views happy with each other.

"Not everyone sees it as a conflict, but I am unable to explain it to you."

Well, I am really curious about how they don't seem them in conflict.

Colin.

[Colin MacTavish]

Well, I do appreciate your work for me, but I don't think this thread was about how God calls people, but what to do about sin. That, of course, must be addressed, at least in part by the nature of the atonement. And, that got me to thinking, apart from how I make use of it, as to what exactly God has done about sin.

I know that Baptists in general believe in the satisfaction theory and also a lot of them believe that this satisfaction is universal and unlimited. Well, if God is fully satisfied that every man's debt is paid, then what does man still owe God that will send him to hell?

I know the pat answer is to believe. But wasn't that unbelief a sin that God is already satisfied has been paid? Doesn't this make the men that God made a satisfaction for copacetic with him?

The very words themselves when you put them together, satisfied and universal, seem to mean that either God is satisfied with all men or that somehow God is still not satisfied, which seems to contradict the meaning of the words themselves.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

See if post #25 helps. I believe those who say the atonement is punitive in nature (Calvinists) do not also believe the atonement is universal (what Arminians believe). The call to salvation is universal, but the atonement is limited to the elect.

I am not the best authority on this subject because I've forgotten a lot of details, but you've inspired me to study up on the subject.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Well, now that I am understanding your question better, I would say that it is a very intelligent question. LOL! In fact, it seems to be a central theme of the Calvinist/Arminian debate. So you mustn't put the two words together, satisfied and universal, because they are opposing theories, at least as they apply to atonement.

[Diego1618]

Biblical definition of sin: I John 3:4, "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness."

Don't believe I saw this mentioned....once.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Oh I agree. Thanks for the verse. Keep in mind, it's not just law in general terms, but specifically God's law. Everyone who sins breaks God's law, and His law is not arbitrary. He is holy and His law is righteous (Psalm 19).

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Great resources for you:

THE NATURE OF THE ATONEMENT: Why and For Whom Did Christ Die? by Phil Johnson

Definite Atonement/Particular Redemption

God's Love, The World, The Extent of the Atonement and John 3:16

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Since we started with MacArthur I thought it would be appropriate to post his view:

The following "Question" was asked by a member of the congregation at Grace Community Church in Panorama City, California, and "Answered" by their pastor, John MacArthur Jr. It was transcribed from the tape, GC 70-19, titled "Bible Questions and Answers."  A copy of the tape can be obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412 or by dialing toll free 1-800-55-GRACE. Copyright 2000 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.

Question

Can you talk a little bit about Arminian theology? Is it biblical? And, if a church embraces that theology, are they saved? [Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?”]

Answer

Yes, if you’re talking about Arminian theology. We always want to make the distinction between Armenians and Arminians. Armenians [are] a people; Arminian is a theology from Arminius. Let me just say this. This debate comes up all the time, and I like to answer the thing by saying I really don’t land, necessarily, with labels very comfortably. You know, you can be called a Calvinist or a Hyper-Calvinist or a Four-point Calvinist or…I’ve been called a Four-and-a-half-point Calvinist… One guy called me a One-point Calvinist--I don’t know how he came up with that. And people can be labeled Arminian.

I understand what they mean by that, but I, personally, try to resist those labels because those labels are loaded with different content for different people. And people love to slap a label on you and then everybody defines that label in a different way. So, I really run from those labels.

At the same time, to put it simply, the debate of Calvinism and Arminianism falls along five simple lines that we all know about called T.U.L.I.P.: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the saints--T.U.L.I.P.

John Calvin rightly interpreted the Bible to teach that man is totally depraved. What that means, is that, not every human being is as sinful as he could be or she could be, but that every human being is sinful to the point that they’re incapable of altering their condition. That is to say, total depravity means you can’t do anything to save yourself. You can’t even make a right choice. You can’t awaken your spiritual deadness. You can’t give life where there is death. You can’t come to a right conclusion on your own. Total depravity means that everyone, is by virtue of their own will and their own power and their own choices, incapable of redemption. That’s total depravity.

Arminius would say--Arminian theology, Palagian theology, as it’s also called--would say “man is capable.” That while man is, in the general sense, a sinner, he has capacities within himself to choose to be saved. That is the debate. I don’t think that’s biblical. I think we are dead in trespasses and sin, and dead people don’t make choices. Dead people can’t make themselves alive. So, I think there is a clear distinction there.

In the case of unconditional election, you have the view in the Scripture that the people who are saved are saved because they were chosen by God apart from any merit of their own, apart from any condition. Whereas, typically, the person who holds Arminian theology would say that we are saved by acts of our own will. We have still the power to believe on our own, and therefore, when we choose to believe, we become elect. It isn’t something that God determined in eternity past; it’s something that occurs sort of ‘de facto’ or ‘ipso facto,’--“after the fact.”

And then you have limited atonement; in the typical reformed view, means that the atonement, in its actual work, the actual efficacy of the atonement, was only for the elect. That is, it’s limited to those who believe and were chosen by God, whereas the Arminian side of it would say that everybody’s sins have been paid for, all across the world, whether people believe or not. So that, in the end, Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of people who don’t believe. That’s a problem because if your sins are paid for already by Jesus and you go to hell, then that’s double jeopardy.

And then you have irresistible grace, which is the idea that when the spirit of God works on the heart of a sinner, the sinner can’t resist. Arminian theology would say the sinner can resist.

And perseverance of the saints, the last in the five points, is the idea that if you’re saved, you’re going to persevere to glory. Arminian theology says you might not--you could lose your salvation along the way.

So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time--while being confused or ignorant of those things--to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.

But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone.

Question (continued)

Even if they are teachers of churches who teach that? Why wouldn’t they understand if they’re so scholarly?

Answer (continued)

Well, they don’t understand--there are a number of reasons why people get it wrong. One is they are in a tradition where people have had it wrong for a long time. And so, that’s the way they grew up, that’s the tradition they’re in, and that’s what they understand. In other words, there is a predigested, passed-down system. Let me tell you, Arminian people can make an argument. They can make the case; they’ve been making the case for centuries for their viewpoint.

I remember one of the exercises that I had to do when I was a seminary student, in fact, I did it on my own; I don’t think it was an assignment, but I did it--it was to read Shank’s book on Life in the Son, which is I think the best, concise argument for the Arminian position. And it is a very carefully thought out, systematic argument. I also studied the theology of Arminians--Wiley and Miley--systematic theologies written by these men. They can systematize their viewpoint and once that viewpoint is systematized at some point in history and passed down and passed down and refined and refined and refined, they have a scholastic system. I mean, essentially, Roman Catholicism is Arminian! It’s a pretty sophisticated system that can rise to pretty high levels of scholasticism.

So, it isn’t that they’re not scholars; it’s that they tend to be in a mold or in a rut (I guess you could say) that traditionally gets passed down.

I also think a second reason why people get it wrong--and this is true for anything--is because they don’t do the really hard work of studying the Word of God, and you have to drop your presuppositions at some point.

One of the benefits that I had, is I grew up in an environment where my dad was the preacher and it was basically a Baptist kind of environment. And what I learned growing up was sort of a middle ground. In my upbringing, we didn’t like the Calvinists and we didn’t like the Arminians; we sort of had that Baptist middle ground. That’s probably what a lot of you…you grew in the same kind of environment. You didn’t talk about predestination or election--that was kind of a frightening thing and that was for dead Presbyterians, and there were only about 30 of them in the whole city of Los Angeles--at the time, and they were over in a room somewhere contemplating their navel and reading John Calvin. You know, it was very introspective and they were thrilled with their theology, but they were a small little group and we weren’t into that.

I went away to college and essentially I went to two colleges, the roots of which were both Methodist. So, they were steeped in Arminian theology. One was sort of a Revivalist environment, and the other was a more traditional Wesleyan environment, where we read Wiley and Miley and all of that, and we had to imbibe all of this Arminian theology. I got out of that; I went to a seminary that had Presbyterian influences. So, I went from the Arminian kind of side to the Reformed side, and there I was in the middle of this mix and I just decided I’d go to the Bible and find out what the Bible said. I think, in a sense, all of that experience sort of canceled each other out, which was good for me, and I went back to the Word of God and in the Word of God, without all the presuppositions cast in stone, I was able to let the Bible speak. Through the years, the Bible I believe speaks very clearly about what the truth is.

But, I think if people could divest themselves of their presuppositions and if they could be willing to eat a little humble pie and say, “It’s possible that I might be wrong,” and take another hard look at the Word of God, they would come to the right answers. It’s a very simple point to make, and it is this: if two people take two opposing views of something, they cannot both be right. Somebody is wrong. And it’s not us, right? Well, I mean, I don’t say that in a proud way. I just believe that we are where we are because we believe this is true.

Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "MacArthur’s Questions and Answers" by:

Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
Box 119
Columbus, New Jersey, USA, 08022
Websites: www.biblebb.com and www.gospelgems.com
Email: tony@biblebb.com
Online since 1986

 

 

 

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Last resource for the day (I wear out eventually): Charles Spurgeon, A Defense of Calvinism

[colorcountry]

That was the book that introduced me to Calvinism. I came out of Mormonism and had never heard the concept of the total Grace of God, or the helplessness of man.

It makes total sense to me....an omnipotent God means He has ALL the power. I am a puny human, dead in sin, totally unable to rescue myself. God in His absolute power chose to reach down to me, breathe life into my heart and soul, and draw me to Him. How awesome does that make God, and how much more thankful am I for His Gift since I have no power whatsoever to effect the change myself. He saved me.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

That's beautiful.

[gamarob1]

Sin, and What to Do About It

Believe in Jesus

There, that was easy

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Ah...but it's repent and believe. Two sides of the same coin.

[colorcountry]

Ah...but it's repent and believe. Two sides of the same coin. I say that it is submit. Submit your will to God. Of course that's after repent and believe.