POPE HIT THE MARK: AT ROOT OF CATHOLIC PROBLEMS IS LACK OF BIBLICAL SPIRITUALITY

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[Salvation]

POPE HIT THE MARK: AT ROOT OF CATHOLIC PROBLEMS IS LACK OF BIBLICAL SPIRITUALITY

He could not have hit it more squarely on the head. Pope Benedict XVI, toiling quietly, with little of the visibility enjoyed by his predecessor, nonetheless was giving hints that he is doing what he always has, what he is used to doing, what he did for a quarter of a century as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: working behind the scenes to hold the world's most important institution together, and he is starting where it must start, where it needs to start, where so many of the problems reside: with the Bible.

A few weeks ago, in a major pronouncement (albeit one underreported in by the Christian media), he said, "Assiduous reading of sacred Scripture accompanied by prayer makes that intimate dialogue possible in which, through reading, one hears God speaking, and through prayer, one responds with a confident opening of the heart. If this practice is promoted with efficacy, I am convinced that it will produce a new spiritual springtime in the Church" [our italics].

Above all, he was saying, we must remember Scripture.

Added the Pope, in speaking about Europe, "many Christian things occur, but there is also a great fatigue, and we are so concerned with structural questions that the zest and the joy of faith are missing."

As he prepared for Youth Day last August, Benedict XVI loudly rejected the idea of Christianity as a religion of rules and prohibitions and said he hoped to use his trip to spur "a wave of new faith" -- the type of faith that brings results, displays miracles, and springs forth from the Bible."

Let us add that the root of crisis in the Church is how little the Bible is heeded and how much worldliness has infiltrated. Too often, we compromise with society and its trends (its politics, its fashions) because we want to be "with it." We also confuse the word "religious" with "spiritual."

Religion is supposed to lead to spirituality. Frequently, it does not. It is the best way to obtain spirituality -- the narrowest gate -- but too often it leads only leads to religiosity (and a reverence for the codes of man instead of those of God). 

The remedy is the book it is all based on. The Church is in desperate need of biblical spirituality. Biblical spirituality is living a life modeled after those set forth as historical examples. It is feeling the grace that flows from the pages. We have plenty of theology. We have enough canon laws. What we need now is familiarity with that remarkable book and the knowing that it is of true supernatural origin.

Reading the Bible on a regular basis allows us to feel the actual move of the Holy Spirit -- to reach God through our hearts instead of through our self-important thoughts.

The Pope's words mimic those of saints like Therese the Little Flower -- who once said that "above all it's the Gospels that occupy my mind when I'm at prayer; my poor soul has so many needs, and yet this is the one thing needful. I'm always finding fresh lights there, hidden and enthralling meanings."

What happened at our seminaries? The Bible was pushed away as ancient literature (and even mythology) and Catholics have now seen the result. Show us a skeptic (one who does not believe in healing or exorcism or prophecy), and we'll show you someone who does not read Scripture.

We have become too secularized and too busy reading complex theology -- the ideas of others about the Bible, or about the ideas of previous theologians about the Bible -- instead of the Bible itself. We formulate complex ideas to impress others.

In other words, we get so wrapped up in the words of man that we forget the Word of God -- which encourages us to exercise spiritual gifts and to believe in the simple movement of Him everywhere (including in current events). When we read Scripture, we understand more about current events than if we read the newspaper.

A Church that is not prophetic, that is not Bible-based, is not a Christian one. It is the very foundation for our precious sacraments!

Call it "aridity" : there is a great spiritual vacancy in the intellectualized Western Church and from the vacancy has erupted scandal.

Unlike other written works, the Bible is alive and of endless fascination for those who come to know its actual power. It informs every day. It relates to different things at different times. It pertains to every circumstance. As Saint Therese said, it has a hidden nature that can be enthralling.

And it tells us what Christians are supposed to do: pray with a living faith, cast out demons, heal, spread the Word, love, give. During the disaster of Katrina the worldly institutions fell while the spiritual ones -- the churches, the charities -- picked up the pieces.

It is in the Bible that we find the richness of wisdom. It is in the Bible that we feel the Holy Spirit.

God will speak to you there.

Need an answer? Remarkably and often miraculously, it's in the testaments. 

[resources: the Catholic Bible]

[Gumdrop]

Sola Scriptura is not biblical. It is a Protestant notion. The NT of the bible was not even written until it became apparent that Jesus was not coming "as Soon" as they had expected, and the apostles were slowly being martyred for their faith. So, the gospels were written to assure that the deposit of the Christian faith and witness were preserved. Neither Mark or Luke were apostles, although they were disciples. The NT accounts were written mostly from oral tradition. So, the word "TRADITION" is not a word or idea to be scorned by Christians. The lack of acknowledging the importance of oral tradition within the early Christian Church is due to a lack of knowledge of the true history of the church. This is the division within the various Christian communities today. Some will only utilize scriptures, while others, such as R. Catholic and Orthodox also include tradition. The latter are apostolic in nature, having a priesthood with uninterrupted descent from the apostles.

[jo kus]

The first and foremost miss used (and totally destructive to this article and post in general) is the idea of binding and loosing. That means in essence that 'if the holy spirit directs a believe to do something that the church has not considered, it then can overrule the Holy Spirit for that person and tell them to stop.

This is giving veto power to 'a Man' on earth.

First, one can obviously take that attitude towards the Scripture as a whole. A person can just as easily dismiss the whole book as a fable and walk away. HOWEVER, Christians believe that the Bible is the Word of God. This is based on belief, the idea that the Apostles were valid witnesses to a man who claimed to be God. We believe them. As such, we ALSO continue to believe the Scripture when it says that God would continue to guide His community that He formed on earth, called first the Jews, but later called the Catholic Church. If you believe that the Apostles gave valid witness to the above, I fail to see why you discount the other promise by Christ to remain with it for all time. If you believe the Church can at a whim overrule God, than what keeps you from even believing that our book is from God in the first place???

The protestants have, they have thrived, and they continue to follow as best they can the Holy Spirit, not the pope.

So have the Muslims, for twice as long. What is your point? Have you considered that God Providence controls such things?

Your pope and his cronies have for centuries disregarded the move of God in their practice and application of their supposed authority.

According to your very argument of binding and loosing, any pope could give credence to any doctrine of devil or God at any time.

Wrong. A pope can be dispensed if he were to teach heresy. This is in the Code of Canon Law. And we believe that the Pope, when speaking ex cathedra, is merely speaking the mind of the Church in a defined manner. It is not just made up on the spot.

The tradition of men is warned against in a warning by Jesus about a practice that is considered spiritual, but that is truly the attitude of religion. Saying this does not apply to the RCC is merely jousting at syntax.

I am not sure what your point is here. That religion is bad? Don't judge all religion as bad because some choose not to practice it.

The practice of a central church as being the only church is nowhere supported in scripture.

Care to prove the idea of many churches with various different doctrines and beliefs from Scripture, please? Who gives the Luthers and Calvins the authority to make off with some of the sheep and mislead them away from part of the Word of God? Where does the Scripture tell us that we are to judge the Church, and then make up our own if we don't think it is holy enough, or teach what an individual thinks is God's teachings?

Please brother; I see very little of the practice of the RCC as described in the catechism as having merit.

Such as?

In Love

I will take you at your word, but if that is the case, you will have to, in the future, actually stop with the stereotypes and give more solid evidence of your concepts and ideas on why the Roman Catholic Church is so evil and misleads others. Brothers don't make such wild accusations or misrepresent their beliefs without proof, so I expect future considerations to be more well thought out and documented.

Brother in Christ

[conservonator]

What was the lie?

The anti-Catholic screed I cut & pasted this from is "Prompta Bibliotheca canonica, juridica, moralis, theologica, necnon ascetica, polemica, rubricistica, historica", by Lucius Ferrarisa. The "Catholic Encyclopedia" lists him as an eighteenth-century canonist of the Franciscan Order. The exact dates of his birth and death are unknown, but he was born at Solero, near Alessandria in Northern Italy. He was also professor, provincial of his order, and consultor of the Holy Office. His work has went through several editions and the Encyclopedia remarks that it is "which will ever remain a precious mine of information..." I found it so!!

112 posted on 10/06/2005 2:22:51 PM CDT by gscc

See the lie?

[gscc]

I do see your lame attempt to obfuscate the issue - first by crying anti-Catholicism and then by claiming a lie. That is what I see.

[conservonator]

I do see your lame attempt to obfuscate the issue

What issue? The issue that some friar may or may not have attributed to the pope seemingly excessive authority or prestige, or the issue that you can't seem to produce the very source you claim to have cut and pasted from. The problem with the first issue is that it doesn't seem to be based in fact and if it does turn out to be an accurate quote from the attributed author, the "issue" is mute simply because a single priest does not a dogma make. The problem with the second issue is that you don't seem to see a problem with being less than honest about your real sources or that sources credibility.

Were I you, I would be far more concerned with the issues with the second issues: it may have an impact on your long term residence.

[gscc]

This will better illuminate the "issue".  It stands in stark contrast to Lucius Ferrarisa's claims for the pope.

Philippians 2
Imitating Christ's Humility    

⁵Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
    ⁶Who, being in very nature^[a] God,
      did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    ⁷but made himself nothing,
      taking the very nature^[b] of a servant,
      being made in human likeness.
    ⁸And being found in appearance as a man,
      he humbled himself
      and became obedient to death—
         even death on a cross!
    ⁹Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
      and gave him the name that is above every name,
    ¹⁰that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
      in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    ¹¹and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
      to the glory of God the Father.

[conservonator]

Like I said, you're issue seems to be with at best, a misguided priest, at worst, a straw man. This doesn't even consider the issue of your unwillingness to confront your transgression of the ninth commandment. Frankly I'd be more concerned about that than some real or imagined writing of a long dead priest.

[gscc]

No false witness here - the truth must really hurt, because this power grab of the Deity of Christ is throughout RC doctrine and all the whining about Catholic bashing or accusing me of misrepresenting factual historical writings is a smoke screen. Time for you to kneel before the altar of a living God and not an institution.

[conservonator]

Time for you to kneel before the altar of a living God and not an institution.

I do even better, and you can too, find a perpetual adoration chapel and come in to the Real Presence of Christ!

[gscc]

Don't need a perpetual adoration chapel since every time I call on the name of the Lord I am in His presence. Psalm 116

1 I love the LORD, for he heard my voice;
he heard my cry for mercy.

2 Because he turned his ear to me,
I will call on him as long as I live.

[Mr. Lucky]

Finally, a lucid comment.

The Bible can, at one time, be the infallible Word of God, and still apply metaphors or parables as teaching devices.

[Rocketman]

The protestants have, they have thrived, and they continue to follow as best they can the Holy Spirit, not the pope. So have the Muslims, for twice as long.

Jo don't tell me that you meant to say that Muslims are led by the "Holy Spirit" or are seeking to be Led by the "Holy Spirit."

As far as my understanding goes when the Pharisees attributed the works of Christ to the prince of darkness Christ called that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

I am sure that you did not mean what that statement sounds like.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Well, the Pope will have a chance to put his money where his mouth is when the UK bishops' attack on Biblical inerrancy is placed before him for approval. And while I generally admire this pontiff I must admit I am not optimistic on this issue. It's one thing to attack Darwinism, quite another to say the Bible in completely inerrant.

Catholics, are you currently in a Bible Study group?

I hope not! Catholic Bible studies tend to be right out of German higher criticism. Better to not read it at all than to rip it apart.

[jo kus]

Jo don't tell me that you meant to say that Muslims are led by the "Holy Spirit" or are seeking to be Led by the "Holy Spirit."

HAHA! I was replying to "The Protestants have thrived"...

However, on further reflection, I stand by what I wrote, even including the second half of the sentence. It is not against Scripture or the teaching of the Church to suggest that Muslims of good will who love are being led by the Spirit, even though they haven't a clue. The Divine Wind will blow where He wills. Since man can do no good without God (whether it is faith OR works), we must presume that God is somehow granting grace upon all men, since He desires that all men be saved. A Muslim CANNOT do a loving deed without God moving that person's will, thus, He is there! This CANNOT happen without the Graces of Jesus Christ. Thus, all men are saved through Christ, even if they are not aware of it. As Romans 2 suggests, even the pagans have a law written on their hearts - the Holy Spirit - thus, they CAN, if they choose, try to please God in their own limited, unsure ways. They CAN honor their father and mother, not lie, not steal, not kill, etc. They can even love their neighbors! Remember the Parable of the Good Samaritan? This should be a lesson to all Christians who think that ONLY the visible Chosen People (Jews/Catholics) can do good and are saved!

Thus, their is a "tension" that holds true in Catholic faith --- That God desires all men to be saved and that only through Jesus can that happen. However, one can be saved without knowledge of Jesus' death on the cross. Otherwise, how would the Jews in the graves in Matthew's Gospel who died before Christ move with Him into heaven? Through Christ we are saved - whether we know where the Wind blows or not. Normally, we are required to be Baptized, but God has free will, and is not bound by the sacrament. He can choose to save people outside the visible membership of the Catholic Church. We should be joyful that He does - as love requires that we love our neighbor. "Who is my neighbor?" Recall Jesus' answer to the Scribe.

As far as my understanding goes when the Pharisees attributed the works of Christ to the prince of darkness Christ called that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

I am not sure what I said for that one. Perhaps you are referring to false religions being of the devil, that false religions are blasphemy of the Holy Ghost? Well, there is something called invincible ignorance - the Pharisees didn't have that. They were the supposed scholars of the Scriptures and Traditions, yet, they couldn't (or wouldn't) see the Jesus was the Christ. Thus, their grasping at Jesus' work as from the devil is not ignorance, but willfully turning from the work of God. To blaspheme, one must know that it is God they are "cursing". On the other hand, a Muslim of good faith who obeys God (His commandments to Love his neighbor), and does not know Jesus and the Gospel CAN be saved - a person "knows" God in this manner, because the Scripture clearly tells us that one who obeys the commandments in love has the Spirit within them. Islam does not save. It is only the Holy Spirit who blows where He will, who places God's Law on ALL of our hearts, who saves as a result of Christ's work. God desires all men to be saved AND come to the knowledge of the truth. This last phrase tell us to continue to evangelize them - as the truth will set them free.

Salvation is open to all! O, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable are His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?...For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. AMEN!

Brother in Christ

[Rocketman]

Yes I was refering to their God Allah being a demon.

I have read Mohommid's testimony in several sources testifying to his wife that he thought he was demon possessed and thatdemons were speaking to him.

I think the proof of that is all the murder and killing in the writings of the Koran - in my mind it is a reverse image of the Gospel of Chirst.

True Muslim moderates whoever they may be do not practice this but we are upp to our armpits in extremists that follow the letter of these "satanic" words According to words attributed to Mohammid on dozens of koranic online websites

So based on this the words seemed out of line

-- however your responce of their unwittingly following the Holy Spirit -- would be scriptural and true. I would still word it a bit different to reflect that thought more clearly.

So I retract my statement

Lord Bless you Brother

[gscc]

So when Muslims deny the Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ and call him only a prophet they do not grieve the Holy spirit?

[Salvation]

Rip it apart?

That's not what we are doing.

[Diva]

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition....

This is a quote from your post that I responded to. For those of us who know Monty Python's famous skit "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" I assumed it was your reference which is why I talked about the "comfy chair." No matter, I guess you're not familiar with this piece of Python television history. But, when I read it I thought, "Ah, an anti-Catholic with a sense of humor." That's what I thought I was responding to.

The web sites you are referring to are indeed a source of pain for many of us Catholics but then we are used to being attacked from without and from within. The Church (meaning the Roman Catholic Church), is attacked just as our Lord was attacked when He was with us on Earth. He was attacked by those who could not accept Him from without and from within His circle of disciples, by those who could not accept what He taught once they did know Him. (This is a referrence to John Chapter 6 and of course...to Judas.)

[Rhadaghast]

Yes I agree that Christianity has been the same since Jesus, and that he has safe gaurded the Church through the ages.
Jesus did this despite the RCC. Christianity has excisted outside and inside the RCC for 1500 years protected by Christ, many times from the RCC.
Just because Luther made a visible seperation from the RCC does not mean he left any Christianity behind.
He got out of that vehicle and got in the one that was always there.

If you think that the only church is the RCC then you do not know scripture or Jesus. You only know religion.

There have been churches with apostolic succession out side the RCC since pentecost. There is a group in india that still have a strong Christian identity through the apostle Thomas.

I went to school with second generation chaldeans that trace their roots back to other apostles

All seperate from the RCC. Oh also What about your othodox brothers? The Church will continue, and endevour towards unity. I encourage all Catholics who happen to be christians to work towards the reforms that B16 seems to be suggesting in reading the scriptures for themselves.

I am not trying to be inflamatory as much as I am trying to get your attention away from dogma. Your church is not the guardian of truth. The Holy Spirit of God is; and He does not need your help.

[jo kus]

I have read Mohommid's testimony in several sources testifying to his wife that he thought he was demon possessed and thatdemons were speaking to him.

I think the proof of that is all the murder and killing in the writings of the Koran - in my mind it is a reverse image of the Gospel of Chirst.

I agree. The religion of Islam is based in part on a Catholic heresy that empties the content of its sacramentality. And while both Christian and Islam have a milititant component, ours is a spiritual one - spiritual warfare against wounded nature and the devil, while theirs is an outwardly militant one, relying on the subjugation of other people.

Islam cannot save. However, the good components within it can act as a preparation for the Gospel. And even something from the devil must contain something of good to be tempting to us. If something was totally evil, we would refuse it. But by hiding an evil with something that appears good, Satan is able to get us to accept it. If the truth sets people free, we must continue to evangelize them.

All we can do is pray for those open to the Spirit's promptings and that in time, more moderates take action to stop the move to extremism.

Brother in Christ