How I led Catholics Out of the Church

Catholic Educators ^ | September 2005 | Steve Wood

[NYer]

I was a Protestant for twenty years before I became a Catholic. Working as a youth leader, campus and prison evangelist, and church pastor, I led many people — including friends and relatives — out of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, it was surprisingly easy. My formula for getting Catholics to leave the Church usually consisted of three steps.

STEP 1: Get Catholics to have a conversion experience in a Protestant setting.

Most Fundamentalist, Evangelical, and charismatic Protestant churches have dynamic youth programs, vibrant Wednesday and Sunday evening services, and friendly small-group bible studies. In addition, they host special crusades, seminars and concerts. At the invitation of a Protestant friend, a Catholic may begin attending one or more of these events while still going to Sunday Mass at his local parish.

Most Protestant services proclaim a simple gospel: repent from sin and follow Christ in faith. They stress the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus and the reward of eternal life. Most of the Catholics who attend these services are not accustomed to hearing such direct challenges to abandon sin and follow Christ. As a result, many Catholics experience a genuine conversion.

Protestants should be commended for their zeal in promoting conversions. Catholic leaders need to multiply the opportunities for their people to have such conversions in Catholic settings. The reason is simple. About five out of ten people adopt the beliefs of the denomination where they have their conversion. This percentage is even higher for those who had profound conversions or charismatic experiences that were provided by Protestants. (Believe me, I know; I was a graduate of an Assembly of God college and a youth minister in two charismatic churches.)

Protestant pastors, evangelists, youth leaders, and lay ministers are acutely aware that conversion experiences in Protestant settings often lead to a Protestant faith and church membership. Why do so many Catholic leaders fail to see this? Why are they so nonchalant about a process that has pulled hundreds of thousands of Catholics out of the Church?

STEP 2: Give their conversion a Protestant interpretation.

A genuine conversion is one of life's most precious experiences, comparable to marriage or the birth of a child. Conversion awakens a deep hunger for God. Effective Protestant ministries train workers to follow up on this spiritual longing.

Before a stadium crusade, I would give follow-up workers a six-week training course. I showed them how to present a Protestant interpretation of the conversion experience with a selective use of bible verses. The scripture of choice was of course John 3:3, the "born-again" verse: "Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'

I used the "touch and go" scripture technique, similar to that used by pilots training for landings and takeoffs. We would briefly touch down on John 3:3 to show that being born again was necessary for eternal life. Then I would describe conversion in terms of being born again. We would make a hasty takeoff before reading John 3:5 which stresses the necessity of being "born of water and spirit." I never mentioned that for 20 centuries the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, echoing the unanimous teaching of the Church fathers, understood this passage as referring to the Sacrament of Baptism! And I certainly never brought up Titus 3:5 ("He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit") as a parallel reference to John 3:5.

In my experience as a Protestant, all the Catholics who had a conversion in a Protestant setting lacked a firm grasp of their Catholic faith.

In twenty years of Protestant ministry, I never met a Catholic who knew that John 3:3-8 describes the sacrament of Baptism. It wasn't hard to convince them to disregard the sacraments along with the Church that emphasized the sacraments.

Proverbs says: "He who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him" (18:17). Catholics without a scriptural foundation for their Catholic beliefs never hear "the rest of the story." My selective use of scripture made the Protestant perspective seem so absolutely sure. Over time, this one-sided approach to scripture caused Catholics to reject their Catholic faith.

STEP 3: Accuse the Catholic church of denying salvation by grace.

Catholics often consider Protestants who proselytize to be bigoted, narrow-minded, or prejudiced. This is unfair and inaccurate; a profound charity energizes their misguided zeal.

There was only one reason I led Catholics out of the Church: I thought they were on their way to hell. I mistakenly thought the Catholic Church denied that salvation was by grace; I knew that anyone who believed this wasn't going to heaven. Out of love for their immortal souls, I worked tirelessly to convert them.

I used Ephesians 2:8-9 to convince Catholics that it was imperative for them to leave the Church:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

First I would say, "The Bible says that salvation is by grace and not by works. Right?" Their answer was always yes. Then I would say, "The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by works. Right?" (I never met a Catholic who did not say yes. Every Catholic I met during my twenty years of ministry confirmed my misconception that Catholicism taught salvation is by works instead of grace.) Finally, I would declare, "The Catholic Church is leading people to hell by denying salvation is by grace. You'd better join a church that teaches the true way to heaven."

Because I would also do a "touch and go" in Ephesians, I rarely quoted verse 10 which says, "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Listen carefully to stadium evangelists, televangelists, and radio preachers. Nine times out of ten they will quote Ephesians 2:8-9 with great emphasis and never mention verse 10.

We are not slaves futilely trying to earn salvation by doing "works of the law" (Eph. 2:8-9). Yet as sons of God we are inspired and energized by the Holy Spirit to do "good works" as we cooperate with our heavenly father in extending the Kingdom of God (Eph. 2:10). Catholicism believes and teaches the full message of Ephesians 2:8-10, without equivocating or abbreviating the truth.

For twenty centuries the Catholic Church has faithfully taught that salvation is by grace. Peter the first pope said, "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved" (Acts 15:11). The Catechism of the Catholic Church, fully endorsed by Pope John Paul II, says, "Our justification comes from the grace of God" (section 1996).

Protestantism started when Martin Luther declared that we are justified (made righteous) by faith alone. At the time I was leading Catholics out of the Church, I wasn't aware that Martin Luther had added the word alone to his translation of Romans 3:28 in order to prove his doctrine. (The word alone is not found in any contemporary Protestant English translation of Romans 3:28.) I didn't realize that the only place the bible mentions "faith alone" in the context of salvation is in James 2:24, where the idea of faith alone is explicitly refuted: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." This verse was troubling, but I either ignored it, or twisted it to mean something other that what the verse and its context clearly taught.

Should Catholics participate in Protestant events?

I have no objection to Catholics participating in Protestant-oriented events and worthwhile ecumenical activities provided that:

• they have a firm grasp of their Catholic faith.
  
• they know their faith well enough to articulate it to a non-Catholic, using scripture and the Church fathers.
  
• they have the maturity to realize that the most profound presence of Christ isn't necessarily found in the midst of loud noise and high emotion, but in quiet moments like Eucharistic adoration (see 1 Kings 19:11-12).

Unfortunately, the majority of Catholic men born after WWII don't meet the above conditions. For them, attending Protestant functions may be opening a door that will lead them right out of the Catholic Church.

There are now thousands of Catholic men on the brink of leaving the one Church Christ died to establish. I recently heard of a group of Catholic men who decided not to consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church in their small-group bible study. They believed that all they needed was scripture alone. Three of these men claimed that they no longer believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I can tell you from experience where this group is headed: straight out of the Catholic Church.

Over the past three decades, thousands of Catholics have left the Church for Protestant pastures. The largest church in America is the Catholic Church; the second largest group of Christians in America is former-Catholics. The Catholic men's movement has a solemn obligation to help men discover the biblical and historical roots of their Catholic faith. Then, rather than leaving, they will become instruments to help others discover the treasures of Catholicism.

Remember that a man who leaves the Church will often take his family with him — for generations. It took my family four hundred years — 10 generations — to come back to the Church after a generation of my ancestors in Norway, England, Germany and Scotland decided to leave the Catholic Church.

As one whose family has made the round-trip back to Catholicism, let me extend a personal plea to Catholic men, especially the leaders of various Catholic men's groups: don't put untrained Catholics in a Protestant setting. They might gain a short-term religious experience, but they take the long-term risk of losing their faith. It would be highly irresponsible to expose them to Protestantism before they are fully exposed to Catholicism.

At my dad's funeral twenty-nine years ago, I tearfully sang his favorite hymn, Faith of Our Fathers. Little did my dad, a minister's son, or I realize that the true faith of our forefathers was Roman Catholicism. Every day I thank God for bringing me back to the ancient Church of my ancestors. Every year God gives me breath on this earth I will keep proclaiming to both my Protestant brethren and to cradle Catholics the glorious faith of our fathers.

[siunevada]

good comeback.

And they're all 'Christians'. Ack! They're embarassments to everybody!

Well, Somebody came to heal the sick because the righteous don't need a physician. And those are some sick puppies.

[TomSmedley]

People who leave the Church in a genuine search for Christ always come back, always.

It must be nice to have God's own insight into the souls of Christians around you. Given the demonism around the cult of the BVM, this is one man who left the church, found Christ, and ain't going back.

[jo kus]

This accords with my belief that genuine faith and acceptance (i.e. in Who Jesus was/is ... and what He came to accomplish) ... will produce such works as those produced by the dying thief.

First of all, how does one KNOW they have a "genuine faith"? This is something I don't understand about the concept - if someone can retroactively say "you never had 'saving' faith", how do you EVER know you have "saving" faith (whatever that means to us) until you die? Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of Protestant salvation theology?

Second, why are you still trying to make faith and deeds separate? They BOTH come from God! Our works AND our faith BOTH come from God. It sounds like you are trying to place more "value" in faith and relagate works to something of secondary importance. Consider Abram. When was he justified in Gen. 22, for example? Was it when Abram was told by God to sacrifice his son? Was it after the first night? Was it when he reached the base of Mt. Moriah? Was it after he laid Isaac on the altar? No - it was when he was about to deal the death blow. Thus, his justification ABSOLUTELY DEPENDED on his pleasing God with BOTH, his faith in God (that He existed and would do what He promised, even if it required God to "raise Isaac from the dead") AND the act of love of God to carry out His Divine will. It is pointless to try to separate faith and deeds.

Thus, we are justified by faith and good deeds. Both come from God - and we cooperate with His promptings. Having faith, by the way, does not automatically yield deeds. Consider Paul's many times he exhorts Christians to act out of love. If faith inexorably led to meritorious works, there would have been no need of him reminding the various communities to love and avoid sin. "Works" do not automatically come from faith, although it is presumed that one has faith before he loves.

Remember. Both faith and works are from God.

Regards

[conservonator]

It must be nice to have God's own insight into the souls of Christians around you. Given the demonism around the cult of the BVM, this is one man who left the church, found Christ, and ain't going back.

If I can make my way back, anybody can, I'll save you a seat;) BTW, I left for several of the reasons I posted, and came back kicking and screaming.

[samiam1972]

I'm Catholic and have a fantastic sex life...guilt free, even though husband is not Catholic(although he believes more than some CINO's!).

You've got to love that I read this entire thread and the first time I feel like responding is to confirm a great sex life. *sigh* It's so easy to hide behind a computer!! :o)

[servantboy777]

I'm Anglo-Catholic, some like to say Catholic light, others say Catholic done right. I find in my own experiences that many (not all) protestant denominations do not show proper respect to the sacrament of Holy Communion instituted by Christ himself. Ok, hunkering down now waiting for all the Episcopal arrows--lol.

[Quester]

First of all, how does one KNOW they have a "genuine faith"?

When one believes the testimony of the scriptures (i.e. the Apostles).

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Second, why are you still trying to make faith and deeds separate?

Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John ... all spoke of faith and works as separate ideas, ... yet, inherently connected.

Spirutally alive christians are identified with all of any number of various characteristics ... (i.e. faith, love, works, peace, joy, humility, etc.).

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

That these are all present in the life of the christian ... does not detract from the fact that they characterize the life of christians ... in differing ways.

Though all are present ... and the gifts of God ... they are not all the same.

Nevertheless ... where there is true faith ... there will also be godly works ... and love ... and peace ... and joy ... and humility ... etc.

Likewise ... where there are godly works ... there will be true faith ... and love ... and joy ... etc.

They BOTH come from God! Our works AND our faith BOTH come from God. It sounds like you are trying to place more "value" in faith and relagate works to something of secondary importance.

Not at all.

As you say ... every good gift is from God.

I see them ... as I see the various parts of my being ... my heart ... my brain ... my intelligence ... my hands ... my eyes ... etc.

It takes all of these to make me who I am ... yet each gift is different ... and some gifts preceded (and made possible) ... others.

For instance ... my brain preceded ... and made possible ... my intelligence.

There is no prioritizing of these gifts to be made ... as all are necessary, ... but it helps me to know how they work and interact together in me.

Paul illustrates this idea (while trying to convey a different idea) ... but, nevertheless ...

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

[warsaw44]

I wasnt speaking to you. I was speaking to three FR members I respect. As your participating in the thread I didnt give a flying leap if you saw the comments or not.

[warsaw44]

Your point being what? Do you have any idea what happened within that thread? Myself and a few other FR members mistakenly thought the comments were made by a troll. We responded. We don't like trolls around here.
You joined Free Republic 19 days ago and you've begun your relationship with the site by posting a huge list of rude comments to FR members.
You've quite a chip on your shoulder.

[rollinginmybuggy]

I like how you so easily left out any mention of the complimentary posts I also made.

[rollinginmybuggy]

How do you feel about comments like the one in 159? Are those rude too?

[jo kus]

I wrote : First of all, how does one KNOW they have a "genuine faith"?

You replied : When one believes the testimony of the scriptures (i.e. the Apostles).

Brother, even the devil believes the testimony of Scripture - and rejects it! Is that saving faith? No, faith is more then intellectual belief in the apostle's testimony. Faith is intellectual belief, acceptance and trust in God. However, to be a "genuine faith", in other words, one that justifies, you will ALSO need to include good deeds, as James 2 says - "we are justified by works" {of love, not the law}. (this presumes faith in the formula. It does not exclude faith)

I wrote : They BOTH come from God! Our works AND our faith BOTH come from God. It sounds like you are trying to place more "value" in faith and relagate works to something of secondary importance.

you wrote : I see them ... as I see the various parts of my being ... my heart ... my brain ... my intelligence ... my hands ... my eyes ... etc.

OK, I misunderstood you. I don't see faith or deeds in a primary/secondary relationship as some people do. In reality, however, Paul says we are nothing without love (1 Cor 13:2). Thus, faith alone does not save. Our salvation depends on our response to God, because God grants EVERYONE the grace to come to faith and to do good deeds. Faith AND works are OUR use of God's Great Gifts. When we use those gifts He has given us, He is well pleased, and we are justified in His eyes.

Brother in Christ

[jo kus]

No, Scripture does not state that Peter is the rock upon the church was built. Peter's confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of God," is the rock.

So why are you calling Simon "Rock" then? Why does Paul call Simon "Rock"? Why do the Gospel writers call Simon "Rock"? Aren't you YOURSELF refering to a person, rather than a spoken confession?

Christ didn't say "I am rock {Peter}", but "YOU are rock {Peter}"

The Church Fathers also agree with this interpretation, even Eastern Church Fathers, such as St. John Chrysostom. It is only those who refuse to accept authority given by God who make the claim that ONLY Simon's confession is the Rock. IF the confession was the Rock, why didn't Christ call all of the Apostles in the boat of Mt 14 rocks when they called Him the "Son of God"? Or Nataniel in John 1?

Regards

[wagglebee]

I'm Catholic and have a fantastic sex life...

Well, soon somebody is going to come along and point out that Catholic women like you who have great, guilt free sex also wind up pregnant all the time! -:)

[Quester]

I wrote : First of all, how does one KNOW they have a "genuine faith"?

You replied : When one believes the testimony of the scriptures (i.e. the Apostles).

Brother, even the devil believes the testimony of Scripture - and rejects it! Is that saving faith? No, faith is more then intellectual belief in the apostle's testimony. Faith is intellectual belief, acceptance and trust in God. However, to be a "genuine faith", in other words, one that justifies, you will ALSO need to include good deeds, as James 2 says - "we are justified by works" {of love, not the law}. (this presumes faith in the formula. It does not exclude faith)

There is no scriptural teaching that the devil believes the testimony of scripture.

What the scripture does say ... is that the devil(s) believe that there is a God.

And why shouldn't they ... they lived in His presence for likely millenia.

Satan and His co-horts do not agree with God ... which would be the case if they believed the testimony of scripture.

From the beginning in the garden, ... Satan has declared that what God has said ... is a lie.

Believers have believed God ... something which God takes very seriously.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God ?

...

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In reality, however, Paul says we are nothing without love (1 Cor 13:2). Thus, faith alone does not save. Our salvation depends on our response to God, because God grants EVERYONE the grace to come to faith and to do good deeds. Faith AND works are OUR use of God's Great Gifts. When we use those gifts He has given us, He is well pleased, and we are justified in His eyes.

My friend ... a man's faith is the catalyst ... everything else is a result of God's response to that faith.

Paul explicitly expounded (throughout his writings) ... that faith is the Key ... which unlocks the door to the life (of love, peace, goodness, joy, etc.) that God desires for us.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are saved by God's grace ... through faith ... not of works ... to perform good works.

[Quester]

Probably because there is no comparison between a mere symbolic communion that is shared in some Protestant churches with the Communion of which we partake in the Catholic church, where Christ is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Fortunately, ... there is comparable similarity between the typical Protestant Communion service ... and that which is demonstrated by Jesus Himself ...

Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

30 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.

This is the simple model for the typical Protestant communion service.

And Jesus is, indeed, ... with us ...

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

[nickcarraway]

You are denying the power of God's Grace. All of our works, are work's of God's Grace, a gift which is freely given to us, and which we choose to accept or not accept. We choose to accept or deny God's Grace in the form of faith, or the actions Jesus instructed us to perform, and it is wrong of us to try to set up some false distinction about our acceptance of the Grace that allows us to have faith, and to follow Jesus' commandments. You cannot limit God's Grace and you should not render 75% or more of the Gospel irrelevant to our salvation.

Have you ever read Luke 18:18-30, the story of the rich young man who came to Jesus? You believe that Jesus lied and misled this man?