Posted on 07/13/2005 12:49:13 AM PDT by dsc
Yeah I don't think the union lets you call a book fantasy if you have no mythological references. There's some by-law requiring at least one mythic creature or you have to call your book alternate history ;)
I loved the Time Machine, War of the Worlds, etc. growing up.
But you can see some of Wells's beliefs seeping through.
Hmmm - Middle Ages? I like reading about that time period. Lately I have little time for recreational reading, but I'll keep that one in mind, thanks.
No the books don't. The books don't take ANYTHING that exists in the real world. Magic in HP has no resemblance AT ALL to the occult.
Been able to get Ouija Boards at toy stores since before there was a Toys R Us, it has nothing to do with HP. Been able to get Tarot cards at bookstores since before there was a Barnes and Noble too, again it has nothing to do with HP.
In an age when people go off half cockec not knowing what the hell they're talking about the Pope (albeit when he was a Cardinal) doing the same thing is just another part of the problem. There is no occult in HP and everyone who says there is is wrong. It doesn't tempt kids to evil, it doesn't present anything proscribed in the Bible as good, it simply is not a threat.
Strawman. They don't do anything of the sort, much like how they don't present real world occult in any light what so ever. It is just a book, actually it is just 5 books about to be 6 books and probably topping off at 7 books, but regardless of how many HP books there are they're all just books.
Also to contrast with Narnia and Lord of the Rings, two spiritually beneficial stories: In Narnia, the children are forbidden to do magic, except those magics which they are explicitly told to do by Aslan. The point is to obey Aslan's will, whereas in Harry Potter, lying and disobedience with regards to magicare morally necessary; the authorities are sometimes bumbling incompetents. Harry Potter displays extremely mature morality dangerously combined with the use of magic. In Narnia, on the other hand, magic could almost be seen as sacramental: that which is commanded by Aslan/Christ is salvific; that which is otherwise is evil.
The Lord of the Rings' main theme is the rejection of illicit power, represented by the rings, which wards one away from occultism.
The mirror doesn't tell the future, doesn't reveal occult knowledge, and isn't augery. All it does is show a person with the thing they want the most, it doesn't show them how to get it, it doesn't show them why they want it, it doesn't show them other people's great desires (two people looking in the mirror at the same time will each see their own thing and not the others), it just shows a person WITH the thing they desire the most nothing else.
Of course even if it was divinitation the mirror is presented as clearly a BAD thing because of its addictive properties that people shouldn't mess with, even the greatest wizard of the era wants to have nothing to do with the mirror because it's nasty and dangerous. So one way or the other you're wrong, the mirror isn't divination, and if it was divination then it is presenting divination as bad.
I would never say that, because I have personally witnessed how the books of lies presented by the condemning Christians damning that which they don't understand push people away from Christ. Your people are the ones leading people away from Christ, I've seen it happened, hell I LIVED IT. It was people LIKE YOU that drove me away from Christ. So yes I know books can drive people away, but not the books your condemning, the books your using to condemn are the ones that do it.
I disagree with every word you just wrote. Couldn't you have qualified it by stating that this is your not-so-humble opinion?
As an aspiring writer myself, I have learned quite a bit about characterization from Rowling. It's one of her strengths - not so much with the major characters, but the minor ones. Now there's a gift, to have a hundred or so intersting, unique secondary characters running about.
Her "research" was mostly into myth/legend. Like Tolkien's was. Can you give me an example of how her magic glorifies the occult? And don't just say "because it's magic".
And finally, if you don't see a difference between a side that wants to rule the world, subjugating those who are different, and the side that wants to stop them I pity you.
Actually, the occult presented in HP is found on actual rituals, incantations, and so on. Quite well researched. Obviously not all of it, but there's quite a bit of historical accuracy. For instance, when HP and classmates transplant the mandrake roots - mandrake was used in various black magic rituals in the past. That particular scene in the book was rather disgusting, and I thought quite telling. The kids pull the plants up to transplant them, and the roots are actual little babies, living under the dirt.
But there's no allure of evil in the HP books. Nothing that has anything to do with the evils of real world occult is in them. Yes there is evil in the books, in the form of the bad guys certainly that's not alluring.
They simply aren't evil, they don't teach occult, they don't entice to evil, they're just stupid little books that are fun to read for a few hours. No big deal.
Please read the comment I quoted in post 426 comparing HP, LOTR and the Narnia books. HP uses magic in an effort to gain personal power, supposedly "good" - but the his character and the character of the "evil" ones are not really that different.
Power over others as compared to power over self. That is the key.
Have you read LOTR carefully? Have you read childrens' classics carefully? Anyone who has can see the shallowness of HP books. They are written cleverly, but it is not great writing. Her books will be forgotten in a generation.
No it's not. The scene in the book showed how not occult the books are, they didn't look anything like real mandrakes, they didn't discuss the real world properties of mandrake (the poison they produce), and all they did was transplant the damn things. No occult ritual, no incantation, and no so on. And certainly not well researched. The roots weren't actually little babies, they just looked like babies, creepy and wierd but hardly disgusting, and certainly not instructive in the occult.
I have (had, maybe. I don't remember if it's still on my bookshelf) a copy of H.G. Wells' a History of the World. I flipped to a few of the religion sections at one point. I remember him writing that of the main religious teachings, he subscribed most to those of Jesus Christ.
Yeah. I've probably read more classics, children's and otherwise, than most people because I love reading. I didn't say the HP books were good writing, I just said they weren't crap. They have interesting plots, fascinating characters, and a really neat world. (Incidentally they read better in British than American, especially the first two volumes)
I think they're right up there with E. Nesbit or Enid Blyton, or a few other second-tier English children's writers. Not on a level with Lewis, certainly, but who is? And to compare them to "Lord of the Rings" is just wrong since LotR is not for children.
Never heard that. It was definitely part of folklore. John Donne:
Go and catch a falling star,
Get with child a mandrake root,
Tell me where all past years are,
Or who cleft the devils foot;
I recall the footnotes about folklore, nothing about black magic.
You are determined to see them as harmless, as is your right. I see them as making the dark side of occultism, and the personal power it represents, as seductive.
I know that children especially are easily influenced. Books (when they read), TV, movies, pop culture - all influence children. Responsible parents will carefully monitor what their children read, see and hear. If they care about their children.
Those writing books, producing TV and movies, and making what passes for music do not necessarily have childrens' well being in mind.
Mandrakes have bifurcated roots, and folklore holds that when plucked, their screaming will make you made. (Again, John Donne's reference is famous.)
Do a little more research, then.
Hmm - don't know what happened there!
My nine year old reads Harry Potter. She is upstairs reading Fellowship of the Ring right now.
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