Posted on 07/03/2005 5:30:41 AM PDT by NYer
LYON, France — A French woman defied a threat of excommunication by the Roman Catholic Church and held a ceremony proclaiming herself a priest on Saturday.
In a small ceremony on a boat, Genevieve Beney was joined by other women from around the world who have taken similar dramatic action to draw attention to the church’s policy against women priests.
“This is not a rupture with the Roman Catholic Church,” Beney said in a statement read aloud before she boarded the boat. “If there is a rupture on my part, it is with a situation that I consider to be obsolete and unjust to women.”
The Vatican has not commented on the case but has made clear it sees no room for debate about opening up the priesthood to women. The Church says Jesus chose men to be his apostles and that the practice of ordaining only men must stand.
In 2002, seven women — from Austria, Germany and the United States — conducted an ordination ceremony and were promptly excommunicated from the church.
Two of the women who participated in that ceremony — Gisela Forster of Germany and Christine Mayr-Lumetzberger of Austria — led Saturday’s ceremony, along with a third woman who followed in their footsteps, Patricia Fresen of South Africa.
Beney, a theologian, says its time for the church to change.
“We consider ourselves Catholic,” Beney told AP in an earlier interview. “But we do not agree with the church law … that says only a baptized male can be ordained as a priest.”
The Archbishop of Lyon, Philippe Barbarin, urged Beney earlier this week not to follow through with her plan, saying it “will constitute a serious act of rupture in respect to the Catholic Church.”
“There will be no truth to the words that will be pronounced,” Barbarin said. “For many Catholics, this will be a source of useless injury and suffering.”
A spokesman for the archbishop, Vincent Feroldi, said that no decree of excommunication would technically be necessary since Beney’s act violates church law and automatically makes her incapable of receiving the sacraments, such as communion.
Before boarding the boat, Beney’s husband, Albert Ratz, called his wife’s act “a magnificent adventure, an act of resistance against incomprehensible blockage by the Catholic church.”
And there are many other examples of woman prophets, leaders, gospel teachers, etc. Both in the bible and in Christianity. I don't think this takes away from the 'physical church's' desire to keep the title 'priest' an all male club. It's God's service that counts. Women that get so hung up in being 'priests' rather than just doing God's work, are worst than the institutions that insist on this being an "all male club."
I only wish that the 'average' priest was as spiritually 'in tune' as the average female church 'leader' ...
Amen!!!
Of course anything Christian that is not the same as Catholic can be labeled Protestant but such a simple 'grouping' of all non-Catholic churches makes the wrongful suggestion that "Protestant" is a denomination or something, denoting some organized belief system other than just being 'non-Catholic'.
On this particular point (men only as priests/pastors), many of the Protestant denominations seem to parallel the Catholic stance. Any denomination that takes a 'literal' read from the bible, Pentacostal for example, agrees with the ROC on this. Oddly enough, Aimey McPherson's denomination (4 square) is one of them.
"It's this difference between the way we read Peter and the way the Catholics do"
Yes, we Catholics have a funny way of reading scripture. We take it literally and in context. For example, when Christ said “This is My Body” we don’t have to debate what the meaning of “is” is.
Look at John 21:21-24:
“Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
"And He breathed on them" There was only one other time in the Bible that God breathed on man - when God breathed life into Adam. This was something very special. Christ was creating his priesthood (all males, by the way), and clearly giving this priesthood special gifts.
The differences are, as I noted, primarily ecclesiastical.
Or, does it?
There are extra-Biblical arguments that can be used to interpret Peter's words. Or, we can take it literally!
Well, I operate in several spiritual gifts, and I'm not even Catholic!
So your interpretation is flawed.
**I don't see the point. If she's saved, she's a priest already.**
Not so fast. Yes, by reason of our Baptism we can all spread the Word of God and bring the lost to the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church.
However, Catholics believe that through the Sacrament of Holy Orders where the man is specifically anointed to carry out Christ's work, is the mark of the priesthood implanted.
Other sacraments that leave their mark on our souls are Baptism and Confirmation.
Traditions are fine and well.
I'm simply going by the Bible, which I quoted.
"Or, does it?"
That's the real question. By whose authority do you interpret scripture?
Christ wanted us to be one.
“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?” 1 Cor 1:10-13 We cannot be one if everyone brings his own version of the Truth. Substitute Luther for Appollos, or Calvin for Paul, or King Henry for Cephas, and you see that the “new” religions and interpretations of scripture that sprang from the reformation are anti-scriptural.
Christ was not stupid. He knew He had to establish a visible Church with authority to keep people from twisting His words. He did just that.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, for a reason. “Jesus said to him in reply, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’” (Matt. 16:17-19)
Here Christ himself:
1. shows the divine origin of his visible Church;
2. promised that Peter’s decisions as leader of the Church would be binding in heaven;
3. tells us that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him.
Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that His Church teaches only the truth. And the Church teaches with authority - "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16)
It all comes down to authority. I’ll go with the Church Christ established 2,000 years ago.
Yeah, no slouch:
"On May 18, 1926, McPherson went to Venice Beach with her secretary, to go swimming.Soon after arrival, McPherson disappeared.It was generally assumed at the time that she had drowned; mourners crowded Venice Beach, and the commotion sparked a days-long media coverage of the event, fueled in part by William Randolph Hearsts Examiner, and even including a poem by Upton Sinclair commemorating the "tragedy."Daily updates appeared in newspapers across the country; parishioners held day-and-night seaside vigils.A futile search for the body resulted in one parishioner drowning, and another diver dying from exposure.At about the same time, Kenneth G. Ormiston, engineer for KFSG, also disappeared.The two incidents were seen as unrelated.
McPherson and Ormiston with radio equipment, 1925
About a month after the disappearance, McPhersons mother, Minnie Kennedy, received a ransom note, signed by "The Avengers," which demanded a half million dollars to ensure kidnappers would not sell McPherson into "white slavery."Kennedy later said she tossed the letter away, believing her daughter to be dead.After 32 days (on June 23), McPherson stumbled out of the desert in Agua Prieta, Mexico, just across the border from Douglas, Arizona. She claimed that she had been kidnapped, drugged, tortured, and held for ransom in a shack in Mexico, then had escaped and walked through the desert for about 13 hours to freedom.Several problems were found with McPhersons story. Her shoes showed no evidence of a 13-hour walk; indeed, they had grass stains on them after a supposed walk through the desert. The shack could not be found. McPherson showed up fully dressed while having disappeared wearing a bathing suit, and was wearing a watch given to her by her mother, which she had not taken on her swimming trip.A grand jury convened on July 8 to investigate the matter, but adjourned 12 days later citing lack of evidence to proceed. However, several witnesses then came forward stating that they had seen McPherson and Ormiston at various hotels over the 32-day period.The grand jury re-convened on August 3 and received further testimony, corroborated by documents from hotels in McPhersons handwriting."
I didn't say she was perfect. She had a legit ministry with documented miracles.
Why don't you catalog all the sins of the church worldwide while you're at it? We could go on like this all year.
Braccae tuae aperiuntur
I hereby ordain myself as POPE
LOL!!
*Had she elected herself Pope, would the body of water the boat was on automatically have become her sea?
You would do better to show her the link in post #3.
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