Posted on 12/09/2004 10:15:01 PM PST by Salvation
It has to be one of the strangest things in the world: So many Christians who love Jesus with all their hearts recoil in fear at the mention of His mother’s name, while many who do love her find themselves tongue-tied when asked to explain why.
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**Part of the problem, I came to realize, was that Evangelical fears about Mary are visceral and not entirely theological. Indeed, much of the conflict between Catholics and Evangelicals is cultural, not theological. Evangelical culture (whether you're a man or a woman) is overwhelmingly masculine, while Catholic culture (again, whether you're a man or a woman) is powerfully feminine. And the two groups often mistake their cultural differences for theological ones.**
I have never thought about these differences in this manner before. Wow! Makes sense!
"Salvation," I find it odd you have posted the first several replies to yourself.
Can you not pull your thoughts together?
Great post. read this earlier in the mag...
Protestant Christians do not recoil at the name of Mary. We just don't involve dead people in our worship.
Yes, you read that right. MARY IS DEAD AND IN HER GRAVE.
That is not to flame or torque you off, it's just what Protestants believe.
I am not trying to be mean, so please do not take it that way.
Good article, Salvation, thank you for posting it!
Yeah, not in your canon of Scripture, since the first Protestants cut out the deuterocanonical books.
Images of Mary or of Christ have no inherent holiness. Regardless of whether it is is a urine stain, grilled cheese sandwich, or of similar images that the Catholic church has actually put their official stamp of approval upon.
What do you mean by "inherent holiness?"
We are to have no graven images of God; however, the Catholic churches I've been in enjoy images of Jesus and Mary. At least doing so with Mary isn't doing so of God.
Protestantism is inherently iconoclastic. It isn't a "graven image" because we aren't worshipping the objects as if they were gods.
Mary brought no salvation to us.
No, but by her "fiat" (her saying "yes" to God), she brought salvation into the world, something that Adam or Abraham didn't do.
I agree. I can find absolutely no scriptural basis for praying to deceased persons. I find no example of anyone in the bible asking the deceased to pray for them.
I strongly disagree with this.
If Jesus wasn't born, there is not salvation, PERIOD.
Had Mary not been a willing vessel God would have chosen someone who was. Do you think that God would have not fulfilled His plan of salvation if Mary had been unwilling?
Some clarification here:
Catholics don't pray TO Mary, they pray THROUGH Mary.
It's DEVOTION not ADORATION.
Statues are reminders not Idols, just as a photo is not a person.
I wasn't aware that you had been appointed to speak for all Protestants. Perhaps you should narrow your statement to describe what you believe or what the doctrine of your particular denomination proclaims.
Yes, but if you believe in the hypostatic union (just a fancy way of saying that Christ was fully God and fully man at the same time), and you believe the Scriptural geneology that is included in the Gospels, then you should believe that Jesus "took His flesh" of the Virgin Mary. In a more "scientific" way, Mary's ova, which only had half the chromosones needed for a new human life, was "made complete," through the power of the Holy Ghost, and at that moment, Jesus was conceived. If you believe that Mary was "just a vessel," then you are basically saying that Jesus wasn't a true member of God's Chosen People, because you need to be truly descended from a Jewish mother to be Jewish! The Messiah had to be born from the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, otherwise the Scripture passage that says "There shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse... and the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him" (Isaiah 11), along with many other prophecies concerning the Messiah, would be lying.
In conclusion, if the Messiah needed to be truly descended from a Jewish mother to be Jewish, and this Jewish mother had the stain of original sin upon her (since she would be descended of Adam), then that stain would have to be passed on to Jesus. There's no escaping that if you believe He is true Man, and is descended of Abraham. The Father, in His great Wisdom and sense, knew what needed to be done in order for His Son to be born. That is why Mary had to preserved from original sin.
I believe in praying to the Father THROUGH the Son, Jesus. He is my mediator and intercessor. He needs NO help from anyone as ALL power in heaven and earth are His. He and He alone is my ever present help in time of trouble. As I stated, nowhere in scripture do I see examples of anyone praying to the Father through anyone but Christ. If I have overlooked someone, please, by all means, point them out to me. I am always willing to study scripture with the Holy Spirit as my interpretor.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)
As a Southern Baptist, I believe this also pertains to Mary, but I would like to know how Catholics explain it. I am truely not flaming here, just curious.
I pray to the Father THROUGH Christ, my mediator and intercessor. I see no scriptural basis or examples for asking the dead to interceed on our behalf. If you know of any, please lay it out here and I will study it with the Holy Spirit being my interpretor.
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