Posted on 09/26/2004 10:53:56 AM PDT by daybreakcoming
I have a question about something that has rocked me to my Baptist core. I am also going to address the question to our pastor next week. My eight-year old brought home a study guide for parents to assist us in the "nuturing the faith of your child". It states: "Children are sinners and the implications are eternal" - "Our children are helpless sinners who deserve God's wrath".
Whatever happened to "Except ye be converted, and BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 18:3 ). And. "Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:13-14).
How are children who die, say at the age of four, covered? Are they doomed to God's wrath?
I have been a Baptist all my life except for a short sojourn in the Methodist church where our three girls were christened and dedicated. The two older girls (ages 10 and 11) professed their faith and were baptized (immersed) this past summer. Bottom line, I felt they did this out of a love for Christ. This approach to the 8 year old is something I have never seen before with the Baptists. I would prefer that God's love be stressed to her rather than God's wrath. There is nothing more important in their lives than accepting Christ as their Saviour.
Forgive me if I sound disjointed but as I said this has really rocked my world.
A side note - this is a Southern Baptist (not fundamentalist) Sunday School - not a daycare type.
What is the biblical support for this age of accountability theory? I see no scriptural basis for such a teaching.
If children are either born innocent or not held accountable for their sin, then why do children die?
God's love and wrath must be understood with all of his attributes. Without a proper understanding of his wrath, his love is meaningless, IMHO
As you two guys know, we are saved by God's grace alone.
Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:8-10."For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Parents should tell their children that because God loves them He gave them faith in Jesus Christ. Because of God's grace alone, we are saved, and nothing should cause us to fear.
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." -- John 10:27-29."My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Believers can take comfort that their children are covered under the Covenant, and parents should give their children the same assurance that Scripture gives them.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33.
You apparently do not have any understanding that children is being used in different contexts in the passages you site (well, the thing your kid brought home and your twisting of Jesus' words).
Those who Jesus wants are like children in their trusting faith in Christ. The context of that text refers to new believers etc. in addition to literal children. And, you will note that even for the children, they MUST COME....they aren't automatically saved. They MUST COME....which implies they are estranged and not innocent.
For sin came to all men through Adam and Eve, and death through the same also.
And that includes children.
There is no such thing as an age of accountability.
We are sinners from the womb.
Anything else is heresy.
Prove an age of accountability.
This is a phantom doctrine of some Christians who don't want to think of five-year-olds in hell, but it has not even a shred of Scriptural evidence.
You are teaching the doctrine of men instead of God.
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desparately wicked: who can know it?"
Jeremiah 17:9
Well, the Baptists are mistaken.
There is no age of accountability.
Baptism is necessary for salvation?
I guess the thief in the Cross was lied to by Christ.
If you can prove it has anything to do with the New Covenant, go ahead.
Although there is nothing specific in the Bible, Calvin was convinced that infants and small children of believers were counted into the elect if they were to die. As for children being sinners... when a two year old says "No" to it's mommy, that is being dishonoring to the parent. It is a sin. I have often wondered about small children and those who think like small children (Mental retardation) and what God does with them if they were to die. All I know is that whatever he decides will be Just, Right, and Holy. I hope you will do some serious searching though God's word and come to a peaceful conclusion.
Look at the next verse.
Jeremiah 17:10
"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."
God came to teach those that were made in the image and likeness of Him. There is no point in teaching those that will never be able to know, or understand what's being taught. That means folks can know their own hearts. They've been given a reference.
Not addressing here the question of the age of accountability, just whether people are sinners or not during childhood, I think it is clear that all mankind are sinful and under God's righteous judgement without the covering of the righteosness of Christ through His blood, since the Word says "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," and "no one is righteous, no not one".
I think the requirement to be "as little children" to enter the kingdom of God refers to the necessity to have the trusting, unhindered, willingness to believe in Him and His salvation by His work on our behalf, by faith.
Buzz.
The heart of mankind is evil....until the Holy Spirit comes.
I believe in the sum of many parts where this teaching is concerned. Jesus said "Suffer little children. amd forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven" Matt 19:14, meaning it was appropriate to come as a child for salvation to him. Jesus led by example more than anything. When he left his parents at age 12 to go into the Temple and learn, as well as teach...it was an example about the age of one's manhood. The pulling away from parents, also stressing the timing of accountability for what one believes. That is why this age has become so important for Jews Barmitsva?, Catholic Catechism, and the time Pastors begin personal witnessing to children. Prior to that most children are there to learn about God, not necessarily make any decisions.
Another scripture says in Joel 1:3 'showing spiritual understanding in children' that each generation should teach their children handed down from one to another.
There is no one scripture that says where accountability begins, and I believe that is because some children mature faster than others.
I think Jesus used his own age 12 as an example of a time when children can use their own faith, if it has been developed properly. It is one of those gray areas that the Bible is NOT 100% clear on, but it is clear that there is a day of accountability since we must accept Christ in order to go to heaven.
When puberty starts, I believe a child is ready to be accountable to God. It is a "God Given" time controlled by God's creation of man, that says I am no longer a child, but an adult capable of bearing children, and taking responsibility for my moral behavior.
Twenty years old was representative of all of old Israelites who died off, and were told they could not go into promised land. The sum of their children, meant to count them.
Jesus spoke many times about the children being allowed to come to him, which represented while he was here as well as when he left earth. Jesus went at age 12 into Temple, leaving his parents without telling them where he was going, and Jesus always led by example.
Grow up, and read ALL the posts, I never said any such thing. You are so tacky.
I encouraged her not to have her children exposed to people who say small children are going to hell. In fact, Jesus set an example of when he felt he was ready to be a man, at age 12 when he went into Temple without telling his parents where he was. The Bible also says "raise up a child in the way he should go, and when his is old he will not depart from it", but there is no exact timeline universally. It does however speak of young men who turn from Jesus, such as the rich young man who would not sell his possesions to follow Jesus.
As far as phantom doctrine, there is a time when we must accept Jesus as savior, and it is different for each person, based on their conscience of right and wrong.
If that were not true we could all go to heaven and never have to repent.
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